Updated AA recall #'s rumor

[WyoHerkdriver]

Sorry dude - the flowthrough Eagle guys are stuck at Eagle until there is a newhire class at AA. I figure that will be a good five or six years.

 

[GIII Instructor]

AE pilots who are flow thru's with a seniority # at AA who have yet to ever reach AA property will not flow up until every one on the furlough seniority list has had a chance to come back first

 

[I Hate Freight]

AE pilots who are flow thru's with a seniority # at AA who have yet to ever reach AA property will not flow up until every one on the furlough seniority list has had a chance to come back first

Says who? There is a grievence about this very subject right now and there was an MEC confence call this morning. Bringing the AE guys with flowthrough numbers in (by seniority) along with the furloughs benefits both pilots and company. Since less than 30% of furloughs are expexted to accept recall, the AE flow-through will just be taking the place of those who decline.

 

[aa73]

Says who? There is a grievence about this very subject right now and there was an MEC confence call this morning. Bringing the AE guys with flowthrough numbers in (by seniority) along with the furloughs benefits both pilots and company. Since less than 30% of furloughs are expexted to accept recall, the AE flow-through will just be taking the place of those who decline.

Grieve it all you want - it is explicitly worded in the contract, regardless of whatever Sovich said. No Eagle flow thoughs until a new hire class, not a furlough-recall class. It is only fair. Sorry guys but the contract rules take precedent over whatever someone "says."

73

 

[Hagar17]

Says who? There is a grievence about this very subject right now and there was an MEC confence call this morning. Bringing the AE guys with flowthrough numbers in (by seniority) along with the furloughs benefits both pilots and company. Since less than 30% of furloughs are expexted to accept recall, the AE flow-through will just be taking the place of those who decline.

imp: whatever..........................................

You AE guys slay me. The next APA contract will get rid of the flowthrough/flowback anyway.

The contract is the contract. You guys wanted the flowthrough SOOO bad, that you were willing to accept the possibility of AA guys flowing back into AE cockpits. 9/11 happened and we all lost. So now you call the flowbacks scabs.

Grieve all you want. Another AE idiot said: "They should flowthrough because the flowbacks screwed up their lives for a few years." FU.

 

[Andy]

Sorry dude - the flowthrough Eagle guys are stuck at Eagle until there is a newhire class at AA. I figure that will be a good five or six years.

I'd bet that AA finishes recalls and starts bringing the flowthrough guys into class sometime in 2009.
Once the recalls start, AA will burn through the list fairly quickly.

 

[WyoHerkdriver]

Andy, I hope you are correct. It will just all depend on how many AA recalls per month and how many elect to defer. As for the flowthroughs, there is a very good chance that we will never see another Eagle guy flowthrough to AA. I have to agree with Hager in that the next contract will likely do away with the whole flowthrough/flowback provision. If that happens, I am sure there will be a lawsuit from the Eagle guys that were given AA numbers.

 

[AA717driver]

EALPA is grasping at this one. They didn't file this grievance when it should have been filed (when the first TWA-AA Transition class was held in '02 or '03).

They were too busy trying to stop the flowbacks (I said then that they should have taken the 125 limit APA offered but I got shouted down by some here.) at that time. Now, they're too late, too wrong and their members will still not get their money's worth from their union.

AND... The real flowthroughs won't start until after the new CBA is signed WITHOUT a Sup. W. That strips away the language providing the mechanism for an AE pilot with a AA seniority number to flow through.

Better tell your MEC to start prepping for THAT grievance because APA already is... (Or, are you going to tell me that "THAT can't happen"...? ). TC

 

[XTW]

I hope they have the entire text of Sovich's statement and not the single sentence from it. The APA should be all over this one.


X

 

[Flyby1206]

I am sure the flowthroughs will be called after all the furloughed. The grievance is filed, but it won't be resolved for years and years. By the time it is resolved most all of the flowthroughs will be past age 60 regardless. Most all AE flowthroughs I talk to dont want to go to AA at this point because they are into their 50's and close to retirement.

 

[100 c.i.]

I am sure the flowthroughs will be called after all the furloughed. The grievance is filed, but it won't be resolved for years and years. By the time it is resolved most all of the flowthroughs will be past age 60 regardless. Most all AE flowthroughs I talk to dont want to go to AA at this point because they are into their 50's and close to retirement.

THEY SIGNED THE AGREEMENT Period.

 

[EA6BDriver]

"...the next contract will likely do away with the whole flowthrough/flowback provision."

God, I hope so. What a waste of ink.

 

[80for80]

If they declared to flowthrough, then they MUST flow up when/if their number is ever called. They cannot decline to flow.

 

[HA25]

I don't normally post a lot, but I have to ask something. Why does everyone want to totally lay the smackdown on Instructordude? He's excited about flying for a major someday. I may be a little older than him, but I kind of agree with him. After I retire I too would like to fly for a major. I hope to see many pilots on the property that are as enthusiastic as Instructordude. Just my $.20.

Because he'll take the left seat of a 777 for $90K/yr and 20 days a month.. that's why. I too wanted to fly for the airlines "when I was a kid" but not enough to whore myself out.

 

[HA25]

AAFlyer, Thanks Dude. Same to you.

I got tired of being asaulted on this forum. I would say something like "Personally, I would rather fly for a legacy than an LCC." I would then get 400 posts/insults by SWA F/U and his gang of zealots. I just tired of the whole thing.

6 months ago if you said anything slightly negative about the LCC model, you were attacked aggressively.

Anyhow, I hope all the LCCs keep making money. Whatever. JetBlueKoolAid, SouthWest, WalMartAir, Skybus, Greyhound, Virgin America, Ryan Air......blah, blah, blah.

I retire from the military in 5 years and 3 months. As long as I'm recalled by then, I'll be happy. My golf game is getting a lot better. Life's tough.

Who knows? I might even get an A fund someday.

Dude, I swear you and I must be twins separated ay birth.. read thru my post history with all the SWA, JetBlue, Airtran and others.. I was damn near satan on this site for a while.

Good news btw about the recalls, I only hope they get me back into that hiring process that I was cut off from (I was waiting on the medical!)..

If not, I've still got friends on the inside, that is if they don't retire before they finish recalling!

 

[afres bum]

i wouldn't want to be a "whore" either!

sorry, couldn't resist!

 

[HA25]

i wouldn't want to be a "whore" either!

sorry, couldn't resist!

fixed!

you know what's funny.. I actually know how to spell that word.. I had in my signature for ever on here.. "This industry is filled with whores!"

thanks..

 

[Big Slick]

V7OT5, thanks for the kind words. Best of luck with AA. If you ever get to interview again, send me a PM and I'll see if I can help.

Anyone who doesn't think the LCCs have permanently changed our industry is on crack. Look at the -190 FO pay rates for Jetblue. Sad.

What I don't understand is why some LCC guys are actually proud that they helped destroy the legacies. They say that the legacy guys deserve bankruptcy because they are too arrogant. I don't see why they take pride in destroying the QOL in this industry.

The Skybus/Virgin American guys are going to take things to a new low. I predict that in 3-5 years we will see current LCC dudes on here complaining about how Skybus/Virgin America are ruining their QOL. What goes around comes around.

The sad part is that we are our own worst enemy. Management will continue to profit from our misery as we constantly stab each other in the back.

The end of the whole career will be an LCC-style international airline like Emirates. Once the domestic market is saturated with LCCs, international will be the only place to make any money. Once that is gone, the game is over. We will all be flown around the world by pilots from India making $25,000 a year to fly the 787.

 

[HA25]

Big Slick, I've been saying this stuff for ever, and I too have been frustrated by the likes of Ty Webb and others berating pilots who actually want to get paid well (AND) god forbid have a few days off while doing that.

I always said, it's impossible for the Major airlines (real ones) to have the same cost structure as a SWA which only operates one type of aircraft, has one training cycle for all Pilot/FA/and A&P, and has one set of spare parts... American with it's mission to fly all over the globe could never live on 777's alone... so they're always going to have a diverse fleet.. so the cost savings that SWA is getting on it's aircraft costs shouldn't be compounded by their pilots working a lot more hours per month to boot, AND having anemic retirement plans, etc.. It isn't much different that what outfits like Freedom air and GoJEt are doing with outsourced labor dropping the bar on pay scales with 70 and 90 seat RJ's.. In the end, any pilot group that drops the bar is only shooting themselves in the foot. This is basic economics, but then I don't think many of the guys that aspire to fly for the peanuts some of the LCC's paid back then had the time for learning economics!


But I also agree that the tide is swinging again, and I too predict in the 3-5 years to come, the LCC's are going to find themselves in heated competition and going out of business while the 3 or 4 remaining strong legacy carriers are going to dominate the global market.

 

[instructordude]

Because he'll take the left seat of a 777 for $90K/yr and 20 days a month.. that's why. I too wanted to fly for the airlines "when I was a kid" but not enough to whore myself out.

Not in the left seat. I'd do it for thar kind of money and sit in the right seat.

 

[aa73]

Not in the left seat. I'd do it for thar kind of money and sit in the right seat.

You're low by about $70,000, for starters. Keep at it, you'll eventually get the big picture.

73

 

[HA25]

Not in the left seat. I'd do it for thar kind of money and sit in the right seat.