Update on Cathay Pacific?

[your_dreamguy]

Does anyone know if labor problems have been resolved?
What is the current status between Cathay and IALPA now? Are interviewees still looked down upon? Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

[PCL_128]

Until the 49ers are recalled by Cathay, you can expect the IFALPA ban to continue. The details of the whole history of the thing can be found on ALPA's website.

 

[AAflyer]

Not many are paying attention to it. In a recent article in ATW the COO was interviewed and asked about the ban and has it cuased Cathay any problems.

He responded with "no", and that only a few bad apple exist in the pilot group, everyone else has treated the new hires as professionals.

Infact if you go to there website, they are no longer accepting resumes as they have received to many.

AAflyer

 

[mar]

I should keep my mouth shut, but....

...the 49er's are never getting their job back. It sucks; I'm sympathetic; what CX did was wrong but I'm realistic.

I just interviewed with CX.

If you have any questions PM me.

Peace.

 

[active_herk]

just curious

If you believe that the 49ers are never getting their job back, why would you want to work there? Isn't it true the company could do the same thing to you in the future?

I'm not trying to make trouble, just curious.

 

[Singlecoil]

If you want to go to Cathay, you better have a Master's degree in Political Science, because you are going to need it. If they don't like you there, you will never upgrade, as upgrades are based on seniority and recommendations. If you get tired of being jerked around you will likely end up on the street with the 49.
I wouldn't take the IFALPA ban too lightly, as you never know where you might end up in five or ten years.

The COO of Cathay says the ban isn't hurting them? What in the world do you expect him to say? He works in management, you know.

Sure, right now the US Airlines are in a bad way, but it can only get better from here. Things will get better and hiring will resume when people start travelling again. Right now, instead of passing the costs of security and the war on terror to the consumers, airlines are passing it on to their employees in the form of pay cuts. Those pay cuts add up to a lot of money being taken out of the economy at a time when it need all it has now and more. The federal government should and I think will pay for all the increased fees the airlines are facing right now. Our current administration thinks airline employees earn too much, and the nation needs to spend 40 billion dollars on ballistic missile defense. I hope eventually we can divert just a portion of that money to real homeland security, including covering all the security costs for airlines and airports. When that happens, nobody will need to go work for places like Cathay. Was that a thread hijack? Sorry.
I know mar is probably used to getting jerked around (I think I know where you work) but Cathay could very well be a career killer.

 

[mar]

Have we met?

Active Herk and Singlecoil make excellent points. I've asked myself all of those same questions and more.

I'd also like to add that I like Singlecoil's perspective on our government's economic priority--it was probably the most articulate hijack I've read in a long time.

But back to Cathay: Why?

If you know where I work from my current position and see my one type rating and figure out where I've worked before then, yeah, you get a pretty good picture of what my entire career has consisted of...

It's been pretty bush league. I feel like once a bush pilot, always a bush pilot. I feel like I've marginalized myself out of the mainstream. One of my friends says, Once an ex-pat, always an ex-pat.

Look, I'm not getting any younger but I also have no family, no house, virtually no life.

I can only live for today and apparently Cathay won't commit to anything greater than a three-month contract. If I go into the job with my eyes wide open and realize it's simply another bush league job with no union protection then there's no risk to me personally. I'll take the experience and get another job--who know's where?

The problem is guys with a family that move to Hong Kong and expect a western style union management and a long term career. That just doesn't exist there--not anymore.

The pay is excellent (even with the B and C and D scales...) but that's no excuse for how they treat their pilots.

As for the recruitment ban: There is no harm in interviewing. I won't contravene the ban until I accept an offer of employment. The whole thing could be resolved by then--it probably won't be--but it could be.

I'll burn that bridge when I cross it.
One day at a time.

 

[Singlecoil]

I think we met in the bar of the Millenium Hotel by Lake Hood.

"Space shuttle.....metroliner.....747-400, ....etc"

All I can say is that I had given up, I mean given up ,on getting hired at a major after getting shot down at Jetblue and Atlas, then it happened. Cathay wouldn't even consider me because the Dash-8-200 weighs less than 20,000 KG. What? The thing was Cat III. Anyway, a lot of pilots told me it'll happen, just wait, and they were right. One guy was a former Singapore or Malaysian pilot working for a US major now, and he said definitely don't go to Cathay. That was about 3 years ago. Stories of the freighter guys getting into fights with the mainline guys in bars and such.

On a side note, if anyone here is sending Cathay updates, I made an excel program that will print your flight times in the proper spaces on their forms. If they still use those A4 sized, singe-sided update forms with your PRN number or whatever that was.
It always drove me crazy to type those things in the little boxes. Just fill out the spreadsheet, load the form in your printer, set the paper size to A4 and it should work.
PM me if anyone wants it, somebody may as well get some use out of it.

 

[mar]

Should I apologize?

Oh geeze.

We may have met at the Millenium?

Did I shoot my mouth off?

Look, I appreciate the advice but with every passing day with no feedback from CX I'm getting the feeling the result from the interview will be rejection.

That's fine--'cause I consider myself really very fortunate to have the job I do *and* to be presented with another opportunity.

By the way, I've also heard the same stories. I have a couple friends on the freighters and often hang out with them and their crews when they pass through town. All of them, without exception, has encouraged me to apply.

The bush-parallel I made above really strikes a chord with me because, like the bush, Hong Kong isn't for everyone; neither is long haul; neither is Cathay.

I think it would take an exceptional person to succeed in that environment.

And I had one more point: I applied for an SO position (no jet time). All of the 49ers were either Capt or FO.

I understand (and so should other applicants) that the ban applies to all new hires but it's really absurd to think that an SO is replacing a Capt or FO.

Now, a direct entry FO into the freighters may be a different story, ...but so is the whole ASL division anyway.

CX has quite successfully divided and is in the process of conquering the pilot group. Why exacerbate such hostility with an impotent recruitment ban?

That's enough from me. I've been following this situation since I made my application two years ago (before the firings and the ban). There's been very little of the situation posted on this board but it seems that there may be some interest.

I hope we can continue to discuss it like responsible professionals rather than thugs on the playground (as I've read elsewhere).

I'm gonna PM you Singlecoil.

 

[Jolly Roger]

Fights between Mainline and freighter guys? I have never seen or heard such a thing. If anything, the crews at CX get along better than most places...

 

[Medivacer]

20,000 key's? What?

I know a guy going over there right now with only small single Cessna time (less than 2000 hours to boot).

A perfect argument why flight instructors don't make the best pilots.

In case you couldn't tell by my statement all of his time was in the real world...I mean bush.

 

[Singlecoil]

20,000 key's? What?

I know a guy going over there right now with only small single Cessna time (less than 2000 hours to boot).

A perfect argument why flight instructors don't make the best pilots.

In case you couldn't tell by my statement all of his time was in the real world...I mean bush.

I was applying for the freighter FO job, I can't remember the mins but you either had to have jet time, or time in A/C over 20,000 KG. Your friend must have been hired as a SO, or "cruise pilot". Of course it was the superior bush time that got him on...

 

[Medivacer]

I'm sorry to burst your bubble.
Cathay loves bush pilots from Canada. Not instructors from Canada, US or wherever. Little known fact. Four pilots from a certain company (over a few years) appled to CX. All 4 got on. Why? Because they all flew in the bush under the same guy.

Go talk to the first CX pilot you see. I'll bet that 1. he is an expat from Canada, and 2. he is an ex-bush pilot.


Why can't you "CFI's" get it through your thick skulls, teaching someone to fly isn't that difficult. It's the easiest way to build hours, not expirience. Honestly ask yourself, "When was the last time I made a desicion?"


BTW. the person I was talking about was hired on as a freighter effo. No jet time, no 20,000 kg's time.

 

[Singlecoil]

I guess they don't care for American bush pilots. I actually felt like I was getting somewhere with my regular updates and had a Canadian walk my stuff in.
Then I had a friend who was a freighter FO write me a letter and they sent me a 'drop dead' letter. "We are removing you from our files..." etc. It felt a little strange, but was a good excuse to drink some beer.

 

[Smoove Ride]

rehashing the past....

just curious....
how long do you forsee the IALPA hiring ban at Cathay? i don't see them ever rehiring the "49'ers", and i'm sure they have hired at least 49 pilots by now to replace them. so every new hire from here on out is a "scab"? if this is true, and the ban exsists forever, then after another 20 years or so the whole d*mn senority list would be scabs.... no? i know it must not be much of a deterent because they are full up on applicants right now.

i'm not getting into a debate about the merits of working at Cathay vs. elsewhere, the justification of breaking the ban, etc.... not trying to flame, just wondering what folks think? any input?

 

[mar]

I don't know what to think

I can't believe the ban lasted *this* long. Not only that, but I've stopped following the developments on Pprune since my rejection.

My only strong opinion is that it's impossible to be a scab without a strike--in fact the HKAOA (union) themselves call new-hires "replacement workers".

I also have an opinion about labor relations over there: I think management won't stop intimidating pilots until all of the high paid senior guys are gone and "replaced" with desperate, lower paid, albeit less experienced pilots.

I saw a similiar phenomenon at my current employer. Years ago the pilots tried to unionize. Management made life even more unbearable. The most senior guys (higher paid) all got frustrated and left. Company hired lots of eager low time guys that worked for less. Later they fired the axe-man. Improved their relations with the new pilots. Gave us a raise.

Wham!

No more union.

There's a method to their madness.

 

[GCD]

Cathay was a good company six years ago. Now, it is run like a Chinese laundry. An American is very unlikely to get an upgrade at CX. Americans are not liked very well in the company. If they don't like someone, they will simply do one of a couple things.

1) Bust you on a checkride
2) Say that you are unstable and make you visit their shrink

Either one is a career killer, but like Clint Eastwood said, "Do you feel lucky?"

 

[AA717driver]

I heard...

CX won't hire high timers with previous major experience? Guess I'm damaged goods . You know anything about that? Thanks for the info everyone.

If CX doesn't work out, I think I'll try Emirates when I hit the street.TC

 

[GCD]

Emirates are a little more receptive to Yanks flying there. A better company to work for, also. They raised the max age from 47 to 49 to apply. The application is easy to retrieve fro the web site.

 

[JayDub]

I'm sorry to burst your bubble.
Cathay loves bush pilots from Canada. Not instructors from Canada, US or wherever. Little known fact. Four pilots from a certain company (over a few years) appled to CX. All 4 got on. Why? Because they all flew in the bush under the same guy.

Go talk to the first CX pilot you see. I'll bet that 1. he is an expat from Canada, and 2. he is an ex-bush pilot.


Why can't you "CFI's" get it through your thick skulls, teaching someone to fly isn't that difficult. It's the easiest way to build hours, not expirience. Honestly ask yourself, "When was the last time I made a desicion?"


BTW. the person I was talking about was hired on as a freighter effo. No jet time, no 20,000 kg's time.

Before we start this, let me say I have a gold seal CFIAIME. As you might imagine, I am just a little partial to the CFI rating. Exactly what in all of your immense experience makes you think you know whether or not CFI time makes a better or more well-rounded pilot?

If you want to start a new thread, that's fine. Please, cite examples of why teaching doesn't make you a better pilot.

JayDub