Universal Seniority List?

[P38JLightning]

Still not answered is why it wouldn't work? Let's say I got my ATP Jan 2001

At that point you just answered your own question. So someone gets their ATP a day after you, works their butts off to go to their dream airline, then watches guys jump in front of them every new class because while he was at Brand X the whole time, someone else was flying B1900s somewhere else building seniority on top of him?

DOH via ATP issuance is perhaps one of the least workable ways to implement arguably the least workable solution (a USL/NSL) to address the issues we have in the profession.

 

[maru657]

Won't work untill,,,Pilot's control the work rules ie; pay scales, duty hours etc. However, untill then why bother to respect any other groups rules, picket lines and so forth. If there is to be no national concensus respecting seniority, wages and work rules, why respect the standards of the brand X pilot group down the street? I mean, intuitively we already understand this, which is why no major pilot group will strike again if management is willing to pay the cost of replaceing them. ALPA made the decission long ago to reject a national seniority list and now their a ghost. As was mentioned elsewhere on this board, the ALPA pin wearing UAL crews will probably recieve a cool welcome from the former, "non pin wearing" Frontier pilots at Continental.

 

[nyboilermaker]

...So in reality what your saying is I can go get my ATP then have an entirely different career until I can hold 747 captain then just show up at any airline and take my right full spot!

No one's going to hire you if you haven't flown a large widebody or B747 type if there are others applying with that experience.

Just as NYU isn't going to hire a a Dermatologist when they're trying to fill a Cardiothoracic Surgeon position.

 

[Cowboy75]

I am so sorry to disagree with you. But USAir EAST was the FAILING airline. Now all of a sudden all the East guys are saying, it was an illusion. The company was doing fine but mngmt was fibbing about our doomed fate.

I was doing PHL redeyes during this fiasco. It was ugly and I do remember the "air" of desperation and sadness at the PHL airport. I prayed for you guys (East) to continue to operate, for I talked to a bunch of your commuters who were depressed and almost devastated with the looming shut down of USAir East.

I do not have a stake in this, the only thing I have is honest observation and nonemotional truth/remarks. Most of the EAST guys are BSing now or trying to position themselves for betterment.<---NOT FAIR AT ALL. Stop the koolaid drinking and accept your BINDING ARBITRATION.

On the other hand, AmericaWest just had started making small profits and shoring up their cash on hand to be able to purchase the East. The unfair part of this is that guys in the EAST with more seniority got stapled.

Sorry and CYA,

Spot on analysis. Well said!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Why not vote in and support legistation that seeks to stabilize this industry. Supposivley this industry is vital to the US economy, but the CEO's and Wall Street treat it like another gang bang whore.....

 

[livin'thesim]

USL is a bad idea, but better than ATP date would be:

Years in service at a UNION 121 carrier or years furloughed instead of DOH.

If you quit a 121 carrier, your accrual stops.


Unforeseen consequences will arise of course. Here's one possibility:

A new airline starts up and offers good wages, and no seniority list.
Guys with low seniority decide to jump ship and upgrade quick. They then refuse to ever take the airline ALPA because they know that more senior guys from elsewhere can come over and push them down.

Management exploits this concern and keeps wages lower. More startups follow this plan and junior guys jump ship to those airlines in order to boost their careers.


The fatal flaw in the NSL/USL idea is that very few of it's advocates have thought through the unintended consequences. There are all kinds of potential traps in transitioning to such a system.