United to shrink 9%

[P3-Adub]

Hey Boz

You still voting no ???

Sounds like the tune has changed a bit ? I would now like to see a change of tune from our fellow employee groups. As you say though, things seem to take forever around this place. Looks like the line is drawn in the sand now. We'll now see how intelligent some of our fellow employees will be.

A quick question as it appears you have been around here a little longer than I, if you get furloughed then the company goes into bankrupcy, is there still recall rights ? Also, do you think the 400 fleet is the one that they most want to retire ? Would not make sense to park anything else. It really does not make sense to get rid of the 400s either in my opinion.

Sure hope we can all find the same end of the rope soon !

 

[Boz]

P3-Adub,

I will be honest with you when the ERP was beving devised I knew it would have concessions and other work rulke changes to it. In fact I was quite surprized when I found out it was 10% in givebacks. What I hated the most about the whole thing was that it really did not have anything for the furloughees in it. I have many good friends that where hired in 2000, after leaving good military and civilian jobs. Now these guys have an uncertain furtures as to when they might return. I was upset with the ERP and ALPA for not putting some pressure on our feeder carriers to hire some furloughees, or having anykind of timeline to get the 844 back on property. In regards to ALPA and hiring our furloughees, it pi$$es me off that when other 121 carriers had furloughed there pilots in the past, such as Sun Country, or when UFS went under we invited there pilots to interviews and hired many of them. The furloughees could give 24 months without any worry just as much of training expense as any other new hire that could leave to head towards greener pastures. Today our furloughess have the kiss of death on there resumes being a furloughee. So they are told that there greievances will not be acted upon if we sign onto the ERP and we will give them longevity.

Also, allowing the US Air code share was done without MR, and simply thrown into the ERP at the last minute.

Anymore outsourcing of flying that may go into the Star Alliance plan.

Anyway, in regards to the 400's they have been on the chopping block plan around 2000. We have fewer seats in our 400's then our competitors do, and we have a lot of room for the first and business seats, but that market is way down and we need the suits at WHQ to figure this out and adapt to the changing airline market. The 400's are for sale, but no buyers are intrested. IMHO, since airliners are parking planes and being given great deals from Boeing and Airbus on new equipment, we will probably end up with them for awhile, and hopefully market dynamics will change and we can configure them to be profitable again.

The one rumor I remember hearing TK guys telling me was that the company in the future wanted to go more inline with 2 fleets. 777 for most Int'l flying and various Airbus' combo fleet to do the domestic flying. This would elliminate the amount of transition training and expense that UAL does with today's fleet plan. Just a rumor, but as you can see UAL has changed the fleet already and with the sale of the 400's I would not be surprised if we see another fleet head towards VCV. I am with you on the 400's I hate to see them go, and can see them sticking around for the next couple of years.

Now as far as the vote, I see it as being a waste of time unless we get the IAM and AFA to come up with a fast plan to givebacks. I can't see it happening and therefore we are headed towards the CH.11 playbook. I started out a strong No in July and was on the fence for a long time at the beginning of August, and now I have to say I will probably vote yes. As far as it stopping furloughs, that is what the ERP states, but you can see the company has not honored C2K so why would they honor the ERP.

Can't wait to see who we to run this airline. Sorry to go on, but it is going to be a long 29 days!

 

[P3-Adub]

Thx Boz

Thanks for the info. I am still wondering about the furloughee recall rights if we get into bankrupcy ? Given the fact that we cannot convince other work groups that this is for real, I fear the worst.

Was it mentioned at the road shows if the furloughees get a vote in this ? How about the non-probationary pilots that have been furloughed ? I did see that there was an effort made to get all pilots to the shows even if on furlough. I to would like to have seen more help for the 844, hard to get our feeders to take any without flow through. Anyway, with idiotic fare wars taking place the entire industry is going to suffer for quite some. Even with the warts in the ERP I feel it will get us going faster than bankrupcy, should also get our folks back on the property sooner too. Gotta grow not shrink ! Otherwise we will all be riding around in orange airplanes ! They smell blood ! Must be something worth going after. It is a shame that we cannot see it ourselves.

As far as the 400s go, I understand that the DC-10s were not successful because of reliability ? Gee, think a few 747-400 in a cargo configuration may be a little more so ? I imagine that if UAL got serious about hauling some cargo and putting a few more seats in those birds we just might get competetive again. I think one of the reasons mgmt wants to rid themselves of those planes is the cost per hour difference vs the 777. They also have to pay the crews a little more. I have heard that we leave a lot of frieght on the ramp in Australia a little too often with the 777 ? I can see the advantage of having a few fleets vs several however having recently rode on a CRJ-700 from PDX to DEN I cannot see the public liking them all that much over a 737 or a 757. I heard a lot of complaints and my biggest one was absolutely no leg room. My knees had a couple inches less room than on the cramped guppy ! So much for the wave of the future !

Any feedback from our fellow F/As and mechanics lately ? Must be hard to all look at each other ? Lets hope for some improvement !

Take care,

 

[Boz]

P-3,

I can tell you that the relationship we have with our fellow co-workers has become heated at times. Don't get me wrong, its not like we are going to blows or anything, but when someone brings up the ERP or starts playing the blame game. I just try to bite my tounge before I join in on blasting someone for there thoughts. So, the best approach is by just focusing on the job at hand and try putting it out of my mind until we level off in cruis anyway.

As far as CRJ growing greater and taking more routes, I feel it will happen, but not sure on the pace of things or how the CH.11 filing may change our scope clauses. Again, another dynamic arena. Also, this is a touchy subject that has always generated lots of controvercy. Both sides have legitamate concerns, and we need to find a middle ground to achieve progress for UAL and express. UAL is unique in where we do not own our feeders unlike AMR and DAL, and even NWA with partial ownership. We need the feed and need to come up with some compromise with ACA, Skywest, AWAC... I just don't know what the middle ground is or what is on the drawing board!


You are right about the 10's. The maintenance problems kept mounting and our reliability was simply not there. However, the rope starts would have been the plane of choice up there and corrected the problem. You can see that NWA is now running 2 x UAL 747-200's in a new frieghter paint scheme, and making good coin at it too. I just wished we had never completely taken ourselves out of the picture up in Anchorage. Who knows we may get back there once this current mess is resolved.

I spoke to an IAM buddy and he said that the attitude is starting to change amongst some of his co-workers, but the clock is ticking and they really need to start getting down to business in a hurry. In a way I am sort of glad they put a time limit on our concessionary talks. The ATSB is not playing around and is sick of UAL unions dragging there feet. The actions of our unions will speak forthemselves in a few short weeks. Also, spoke with a pilot who attended today's LAX roadshow. I went to the one in DC not to long ago, and the mood was much different in our note comparisons on the way the LAX show was. The focus was more on the CH.11 filing and what will happen. As far as furloughed pilots, I think you will be protected but will need to do some checking on that one. I will post any news on it that I come accross.


Take it easy, and keep the faith.

BOZ

 

[HvyjetFO]

My $.02

Labor has been and always will be the easiest scapegoat to lay the blame upon. Management will never blame themselves, so who else is left to throw the blame upon? The consumer? Never. So Labor is all that's left. Looking back at the way UAL was mismanaged during Wolf's tenure and his subsequent counter parts, its no wonder Labor has nothing but distrust for management. During the mid 90s when the economy was in full swing and everyone was making $$$, all UAL employees had to show for it was concessionary contracts. Again, when it came time for UAL pilots to ink a decent contract, management played hardball, and thus was born the Summer of Love. When all was said and done we obtained a great contract, but with terrible economic timing.

There are many decisions that UAL management made that were no less than awful. It has cost the airline dearly and burned up lots of cash. We all recognize these facts, but despite the fact of where the blame lies, it is all of our problem now. However, it chaffs my a$$ to watch the government and the media scour at labor costs, all the while ignoring management ineptitude.

Regrdless, management will attempt to make labor pay for its mistakes again, and whether it is feasible or not is up to the individual. My goals are to restore UAL to profitability and get our furloughed folks back ASAP, and IMHO, to do so will require a personal financial sacrifice. Fair? Not at all. Reality? Completely.

A couple caveats, however. Things are never as cut and dried on either side of the fence. As such it's almost impossible to tell these days who's got a royal flush and who's betting the store on a pair of 3s. Secondly, don't be surprised when this scenario comes to an airline near you. When the bar is lowered, rest assured we will all feel the pain. Best of luck to all of us.

Hvy

 

[Boz]

Spoke with a buddy that just came from the puzzle palace, not the best news but at least it is a sign that things are happening. Word is that the new CEO is coming and should be announced by the 16th of Sept. But the real good news is that he he is going to have his own team to restructure UAL, which means Dutta, Studdart are gone. This is good news but the bad is that they are more Harvard Business types. That is all I know at this time, hopefully they will get control of the situation and lead us out of this mess!

Boz

 

[banned username 1]

As I read all of these thoughtful posts, it gives me confidence in the future no matter what happens along the way.

That being said, let's give credit for this mess- along with practically every other corporate mess in the country to the proper parties: The Boards of Directors.

Something is quite out of whack when the real power has absolutely NO vested interest in the welfare of a company. Ladies and gentlemen, the vast, vast majority of boards of directors in this country are populated by friends of other board members who use those appointments as chips to use as you would in a card game. Little thought is given to any actual skills that a member might bring to the party. There is no penalty for being wrong and there is no accountability for being stupid. There is nobody to get rid of you, really. You go along to get along because there are other motivations for your relationships with the various board members. I'll bet it would surprise you at the list of members of the boards of the Fortune 500 Companies. It would be a lot smaller than you'd think! There are people who make a living out of simply being on boards. Almost every one of them is only "here for the food". BOD "gadflies".

That's a sad but all too true indictment. There is virtually no oversight to the running of the companies and idiotic decisions being made every day with no dissention because "It's time for dinner". We wouldn't want to rankle anybody by saying that their idea was idiotic because then we wouldn't be asked to join another board. If you think that I'm wrong, just look at how many BODs our old friend Jim Goodwin is on since yelling "Geronimo" at our beloved UAL.

And the capper, how the f... did Enron ever happen? Who's watching the store? Obviously not their BOD.

George W. didn't do anything but make eyewash when he enacted the law requiring the CEO and CFO to verify the accuracy of the financial statements. He should have made the BODs of America's companies become accountable in their duties in a personal way, including jail time for the most grievous cases.

UAL78

 

[HA25]

Amen UAL78. I am totally disgusted with the whole concept of stock options, combined with the quarterly earnings maddness the the capital intensive airlines have to work under. The SEC should exempt airlines from that requirement, so that the CEO's don't do what's good for stock in the shortrun and forget the good of the company (read UAL / AAA merger fiasco). $120 million in executive stock options were in play for that winner!

 

[Boz]

Dead on UAL78,

It is very disturbing to realize how corporate America is run. You nailed it on tge head about no accountabiliy for these CEO's and there klan.

I read an article about white collar vs Blue collar crime and it is unbelievable how the whit collar fools get a slap on the wrist and possibly a little time at Club FED! What a joke!

If some 18 year old steals a car or sells crack he gets jail time. So IMO he has hurt or violated a few people's lives. Meanwhile the executives of Enron, Worldcom, etc ruin the lives of thousands and get to take the 5th, and never serve a day in Jail for it. They simply exit with there golden parachute and say oh well off to the next company to start working on a new chute. I wish W. would get tough and get the appropriate laws in place to pinish these guys like they deserve to be.

BOZ