United to shrink 9%

[banned username 2]

I had read somewhere that the government will require much greater concessions than what is on the table (10% cut in pilot pay)... They said it is likely they would have to go back to what the pilot wages were before their latest contract (37% cut) in order for the government to consider that appropriate concessions for the loan backing.

If I can find the article again I will post a link...

 

[Boz]

What concerns me the most after hearing the 30 day announcement is UAL's union are very, very slow in there decisoin making process. The fact that we have employees that feel the company is just bluffing just blows my mind. I am not saying this because of all the media attention UAL has recieved over the last few weeks.

I know the ERP roadshows have painted the typical doom and gloom picture since the inception of the plan. I know I will get flammed by UAL pilots that thing the ERP is BS. Yes, there are sections of it that give me heartburn, but it has taken so long to develop and get the info out there that we are simply running out of time, not to mention this thing is all over without IAM and AFA coming onboard.

It does not take an economics major to figure it out. If you are burning through close to million dollars a day, it is just a matter of time before you are going to go bankrupt. So I think it is about time the wake up bell sounded to the other union came up with a plan that being bullheaded. In addition, I would not be surprised if ALPA come up with ERP2 and has more givebacks attached to it.

The industry has changed a great deal in the last 11 months and I am willing to bet that it will not return to the 90's era anytime soon, if ever. Low cost carriers are emerging and have made there presence known. Now I am not saying that UAL needs to become like a SWA. But obviously they are doing something right by staying out of the red, and we need to rethink our entire operation. Possibly entering back into the freight market, converting some jets into a low cost style operation. We had a few pilots come up with a great plan which was put aside by our MEC becasue of political garbage. Our MEC has disappointed me this last few weeks, I just hope they can get it together and fast. I know they are never going to satisfy everyone, but they really need to focus on stabilizing things and advancing there progress which has not occured.

Well, all the same today's news is not all that alarming as was US Airways declaring BK. It was more a matter of when than if, and Wall Street has predicted the same of United.

It is going to be a very interesting 30 days!

 

[HA25]

Boz,

UAL's biggest problem isn't the 1 million per day they are loosing, as AMR is loosing much more, it's the $900 M payment due in 31 or so days. They have to keep some money in the bank if they are to file BK in order to operate the company, so the $900 M, payment will be their theoretical deadline, as they will need a minimum of $1 billion to operate under Ch11 or else they have to stop operations, which is not what they plan to do.

I can only hope the IAM and AFA will jump on board with ALPA and get that $1.8 billion gurantee soon. Last I saw the stock was selling for just over $2.00/share. There are very few companies that achieve that much market flight and avoid BK's as their credit ratings are nil, this is a unque case where the government is willing to give them a 1.8B gurantee, but the children at the AFA and IAM are just not willing to play.

 

[Boz]

V70T5,

Hey brother I agree with you, I guess I emphasized the diaily cash burn more than the overall debt repayment due in the coming months. Either way you slice it the fact remains that UAL unions have to come together with a plan in a very short time. The clock is ticking and it is a matter of time that BK is the only option. The way I see it, either all the unions realize they have control over what they give up or in 30 days UAL goes to BK judge and he/she decides our fate. To me the solution is easy, I want control over what I give up! 10% was the start but I can see the BK judge going much deeper perhaps 25 - 30% and that goes for all unions.

Another way I see it is that company would rather go the BK route and break all union contracts. This way they won't have to pay the IAM there big retro check, nor the big raises that have taken years to win. Ultimaltely, UAL would break us down in BK court and have the opportunity to rebuild and reorganize the company. Again, only speculation!!! But at this point I hope the new CEO and his team are on the way!

 

[HA25]

BK would do just that, break all contracts (including the AFA/IAM ones) and make all of the ERP a moot point. The employees will get exactly what the company/BK judge gives them.

 

[Cattlepanel]

This will always and forever be a marriage on the rocks. Us Vs. Them. Hopefully we don't live our personal lives like this. Whether it's this side is slowing and not giving or what ever, mgtmt. and the workforce will never coexist happily. Both sides are to fault. The worker will always feel mgmt. is reeping more of the financial benefits than us. Perhaps they are. I guess in the percentage of us vs. them, we certainly out number them by a tremendous amount.
The best we all can hope for is fairness. Like our personal checkbooks, we only have so much to operate with and after that, it's just that, no more..Something has to give. Being a grossly grossly underpaid line pilot, where quality of life is not suffering at my company, I tend to be more open about frustration than before. These companies are in trouble and have been for quite awhile. I laugh at AirInc., that I subscribed to talking about the pilot shortage. As pilots, we unfortunately live and die by the economy. How can the "bean counters" foresee or at least anticipate that the "good" ride is nearing to an end and time to bring the cows back to the barn?
The other side is, I feel that us as the workers need to be humble and accept that hard times are approaching or upon us and make adjustments. To my/our dislike, companies have an amazing ability to operate with little money in a checkbook unlike all of us. On that note I look long term and think we do need to give as long as both sides are giving. The CEO does not recieve a bonus, or no dividends are paid for the year etc. We are so fortunate to be pilots. We are given an ability and the health to do something we at one time loved. I remind myself everyday I preflight where I came from and love what I do and like all of us, want a career that will yield us a comfortable lifestyle and provide for our families. Both sides need to give and take.
Everyone be safe and love what you do.

 

[Tweetybird]

Hey folks,

I certainly agree that it's insane for any loyal employee not to be willing to immediately do anything possible to keep their livelyhood ALIVE!

(loyal = to family, company, career, contemporaries, etc...you decide)

I also hate the finger pointing, but the whole team better take part ASAP.

I kinda feel like we're on the big boat ride in the North Atlantic on that cool clear night. Some saw it coming, some were oblivious, some took action, and some did nothing. Regardless of each reaction, they were ALL in it together.

One thing's for sure. During all the chaos, SOMEBODY should have closed all the da^^n hatches.

"Iceberg, Right Ahead!"

 

[Boz]

"I remind myself everyday I preflight where I came from and love what I do and like all of us, want a career that will yield us a comfortable lifestyle and provide for our families. "

Yeah man, I hear yeah! That is like all die hard pilots, we got into this business because we love the sheer love of flying, it dynamic and exciting enviornment. It bring us great pleasure and excitement. I still get a kick out of the fact that they actually pay us to do this work.

Now, that is where the rub lies! I feel most of us started of very simple in our love of flight, but you know as well as I do, that the greed has set in deep at many companies, and UAL has proved that. Yeah, I hope these problems get resloved but not until we get all parties to play well together.

I often think about all the bridges I have crossed, hoops I have jumped through to get get to where I am, and there still is a great deal of aprehension as to what the future has in store for us. I am fortunate to live life without regretting a day, but I can tell you that this latest chapter is definately testing me.

 

[Rob Beeks]

SWA management rhetoric

Interested in how SWA management is using the current news at US Airways, United, American, et al? This is the most recent newsletter from the VP Flight Ops. In other words, this is what the CEO, Mr. Parker, had the VP Flight Ops put out to the pilots a week before the voting deadline on the 2-year extension of our 10-year contract. I'll let you decide how to interpret their intentions.

"INDUSTRY NEWS
US Airways has filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. It is going to give 110 planes back to the companies from which they were purchased. Employees face layoffs and wage concessions.

In the first half of 2002, United Airlines (UAL) lost an average of $4,700,000 per day. Many analysts predict it will also file under Chapter 11 bankruptcy if not given $1.8 billion in government loan guarantees.

In the first half of 2002, American Airlines (AMR) lost an average of $5,950,000 per day. It announced that it was retiring 83 aging aircraft, deferring deliveries of 35 new ones due this year, and canceling as many of its other orders as it can. It is also cutting 7,000 jobs by March 2003, with 40% of those being from the Pilot and Flight Attendant ranks.

In the first half of 2002, Delta Airlines (DAL) lost an average of $3,200,000 per day.

In the first half of 2002, Southwest Airlines averaged a PROFIT of $700,000 per day.

While Southwest faces an uncertain and bumpy road ahead, we can all be thankful for a sound business plan and cost control measures that insure our job security. In the coming days, as you make decisions about issues concerning Southwest and yourself, take a moment to reflect on the current state of the airline industry. Reflect on why we are in this fortuitous position now and how we avoid joining the ranks of unprofitable airlines in the days to come. Consider the future value of your Profit Sharing Contributions, your 401K, and most importantly, your job security. The key is long term thinking - nothing worthwhile happens overnight."

 

[Dieterly]

Sounds like SWA has a contract vote coming up...