United Start Pay and Bases

[Shrek]

Thank you, Nimtz.
I was dovetailed between two CAL furloughees with barely more than a year longevity in Oct 10, while I had more than 5 years longevity at UAL in Oct 10.

It's done. I could whine about where I was placed but I'm looking forward and moving on. Anyone still whining about the SLI is a gnat's a$$ above a scab.

Bump.

Time for licking wounds are over boys - suck it up. Unless of course you are happily teamed up with a large group of SCABS that are trying to raise 30K for a retainer. In that case please devote every single extra penny of your paycheck to that cause but make sure when it fails to bury the BS and move on.

 

[pianoman]

Andy- I agree with your assessment (Ewr 737 FO L-CAL). Think eventually the A320 and 737 will even out or will inertia keep the Bus senior? I'd like to hop over there but don't want to go from 30% in seat to reserve.

 

[Andy]

Andy- I agree with your assessment (Ewr 737 FO L-CAL). Think eventually the A320 and 737 will even out or will inertia keep the Bus senior? I'd like to hop over there but don't want to go from 30% in seat to reserve.

There are a lot of retirements coming up, more on the LUAL side than the LCAL side. I would expect to see quite a bit of movement off of the A320FO seat but if I were you, I probably wouldn't make the jump until I was able to hold a line on the A320. It probably won't be that long for you.
I would expect that A320/737 will be fairly even in terms of seniority. There are a lot of pilots who would never fly anything but a Boeing. I think that's mostly due to never flying an Airbus.
If I'm able to get an A320 out of LAX (from 737 LAX) in the next 6 months, I'll go from near bottom lineholder to reserve. To me, it's worth it because it's so much more enjoyable of a plane to fly.

 

[CAL EWR B737]

Reserve sucks today. When all new CBA provisions turn on joint CMS (around first of year) reserve will be much better. With everyone starting out on long call 13 hours to push. A true FIFO system (so those junior will not get extra flying due to not always being top if call out list- much fairer system then currently). I'm told the average conversion from long to short call at LUAL is two to three times per month. While reserve will always not be any where as good as a line holder the improvements in QOL under the JCBA on reserve (when fully implemented) will be much better. Something to consider if you bid EWR 756 FO especially since most of the flying is to Europe.

Just my two cents. Welcome to all new hires look forward to flying with you.

 

[densoo]

Reserve sucks today. When all new CBA provisions turn on joint CMS (around first of year) reserve will be much better. With everyone starting out on long call 13 hours to push. A true FIFO system (so those junior will not get extra flying due to not always being top if call out list- much fairer system then currently). I'm told the average conversion from long to short call at LUAL is two to three times per month. While reserve will always not be any where as good as a line holder the improvements in QOL under the JCBA on reserve (when fully implemented) will be much better. Something to consider if you bid EWR 756 FO especially since most of the flying is to Europe.

Just my two cents. Welcome to all new hires look forward to flying with you.

I agree that it will be much improved. I don't think short-call conversions will remain low. Up until now the great majority of reserve is already short-call via award. Only 10 to 20% has been long call (the cap on long-call awards was lifted this month, but that's a separate issue). So long to short-call conversions are fairly low. I expect when all reserves are long call they will be converting a significant percentage to short-call every day. They'll have to cover all the departure blocks with short-call reserves.

 

[CAL EWR B737]

The above info was told to me by members of the JNC. Remember reserve guarantee goes from 76 to 73 hours per month. After two (I believe don't have contract in front of me) short calls all subsequent short calls add one hour to guarantee if you don't fly. Short call can be aggressively picked up by reserves. Those who live close or want extra money will pick up short calls. That will help significantly reduce those who are involuntarily assigned short calls.

 

[list2002]

"I was dovetailed between two CAL furloughees with barely more than a year longevity in Oct 10, while I had more than 5 years longevity at UAL in Oct 10."

"Anyone still whining about the SLI is a gnat's a$$ above a scab." Ummmmm.... starting... now!

 

[Andy]

"I was dovetailed between two CAL furloughees with barely more than a year longevity in Oct 10, while I had more than 5 years longevity at UAL in Oct 10."

"Anyone still whining about the SLI is a gnat's a$$ above a scab." Ummmmm.... starting... now!

List2002, how cute of you to selectively edit my post to entirely change the meaning of my words. How sophomoric of you.

 

[Andy]

Reserve sucks today. When all new CBA provisions turn on joint CMS (around first of year) reserve will be much better. With everyone starting out on long call 13 hours to push. A true FIFO system (so those junior will not get extra flying due to not always being top if call out list- much fairer system then currently). I'm told the average conversion from long to short call at LUAL is two to three times per month. While reserve will always not be any where as good as a line holder the improvements in QOL under the JCBA on reserve (when fully implemented) will be much better. Something to consider if you bid EWR 756 FO especially since most of the flying is to Europe.

Just my two cents. Welcome to all new hires look forward to flying with you.

That sounds great on paper. The only problem is that the company has violated the contract with impunity and CALALPA has done very little in the past to enforce the contract. I've also read that those games are starting to be played on the LUAL side WRT long to short call conversions.
So long call sounds good on paper, but reserves will likely be converted to short call with regularity. The cost of one hour's pay is insignificant for an operation the size of United.

I used to bid A reserve, and was converted to B reserve so many times that it was insane. And it wasn't hours before the bidding window opened for aggressive pickup; they'd convert me to B reserve no more than 5 minutes before I was able to aggressive pickup. I bid A reserve for the express purpose of being able to aggressively pickup early. I doubt that abuse will end unless our combined union stops allowing the company to abuse us like that.

When I sat reserve with LUAL (2000-2002, 2007-2009), I never remember being called with minimum time prior to flight. At LCAL, that was ops normal.

With the new contract, I'm expecting almost every reserve not assigned a trip to be on field standby.

 

[densoo]

When I sat reserve with LUAL (2000-2002, 2007-2009), I never remember being called with minimum time prior to flight. At LCAL, that was ops normal. With the new contract, I'm expecting almost every reserve not assigned a trip to be on field standby.

When they chronically understaff then "ops normal" will continue. CAL planned their staffing assuming reserves fly 70+ hours. UAL probably planned their reserves assuming reserves flew zero hours--they are true reserves to cover gaps therefore seldom get called. Like the calvary they're there if needed. CAL reserves are really lineholders with no life--they're going to fly, a lot, they just don't know their schedule until they're called. The problem with this method is, who then are the real reserves then? If the reserves must fly to cover the preknown schedule, then what happens when irregular ops or sick calls pop up. It's a rolling crisis.

 

[acaTerry]

When they chronically understaff then "ops normal" will continue. CAL planned their staffing assuming reserves fly 70+ hours. UAL probably planned their reserves assuming reserves flew zero hours--they are true reserves to cover gaps therefore seldom get called. Like the calvary they're there if needed. CAL reserves are really lineholders with no life--they're going to fly, a lot, they just don't know their schedule until they're called. The problem with this method is, who then are the real reserves then? If the reserves must fly to cover the preknown schedule, then what happens when irregular ops or sick calls pop up. It's a rolling crisis.

Well, this answers the question of where NJA schedulers go when they leave NJA.

 

[av8tordude23]

How long is it taking to get off reserve? (avg time in general)

 

[RT8VA]

On another note any one who is hired now hits second year pay on the 2014 rates not the 2013 as every one is posting so second year for some one hired today would actually be $101.47 on a 737-8. Good luck.

 

[Andy]

How long is it taking to get off reserve? (avg time in general)

If your class starts in August, probably rather quickly. If your class starts in April, it'll take a while. It also helps if you take a 737 to EWR - that seat/domicile probably sees the quickest movement.

The training center slows to a crawl during the summer months.

Sorry for the vague answer.

 

[Andy]

When they chronically understaff then "ops normal" will continue. CAL planned their staffing assuming reserves fly 70+ hours. UAL probably planned their reserves assuming reserves flew zero hours--they are true reserves to cover gaps therefore seldom get called. Like the calvary they're there if needed. CAL reserves are really lineholders with no life--they're going to fly, a lot, they just don't know their schedule until they're called. The problem with this method is, who then are the real reserves then? If the reserves must fly to cover the preknown schedule, then what happens when irregular ops or sick calls pop up. It's a rolling crisis.

On the 727 panel, I didn't fly much. I moved to A320FO in early 2001 and flew ~40 hours a month on reserve.
2007-2009, I was on the 756. I flew more than 50 hours/month. The difference was that I was called well in advance, rather than at the last minute to avert a crisis. In addition, one of the dumbest things I've seen is assigning a reserve block to a reserve pilot PRIOR to a trip they've picked up. I've Whitlow'd out a few times because of that stupidity.

I think that the constant rolling crisis is why LCAL pilots die much more frequently than other airlines prior to retirement. I'd like to think that the new contract and FAR 117 will change things toward the LUAL way of doing business but I think that's a pipe dream. Especially seeing how bad our employee website's been Jeff'd up since the merger. And don't get me started on all of the payroll 'errors' I've experienced with the LCAL side of the house. Funny how it's always been in the company's favor.