united Pilot and Furloughees-- we're screwed:

[NavinRJohnson]

Interesting read. Thanks for the post and good luck to all of you at United.

I hope your BOD get inundated with letters for Tilton's ouster.

 

[Skippy]

I have yet to see anyone on this forum able to predict anything with any accuracy.... just like not one person "predicted" a "profit" by United.

It was a BS profit thru accounting shim sham-- dont fool yourself

 

[Skippy]

a tad unusual- maybe trying to silence some pilots

there was a group of pilots who were informing the pilot group a little too well on the finances of united- take in combination that nice ual alpa note about sick calls higher than normal and voila:





UALMEC Forum Update, July 22, 2009

The UALMEC Forum is closed due to a server virus. Please watch the ALPA FastReads for future updates. Thank you.
riiiiiiight a virus---- is it the glen tilton virus

 

[Speedtape]

Tick-Toc-Tick-Toc! Another great airline run into the ground by Corporate Pirates--when will it end?

 

[regionaltard]

Tick-Toc-Tick-Toc! Another great airline run into the ground by Corporate Pirates--when will it end?

I think that this might be good old-fashioned incompetence rather than piracy. Even pirates need to come up with plans and execute them in order to succeed.

 

[Sonny Crockett]

there was a group of pilots who were informing the pilot group a little too well on the finances of united- take in combination that nice ual alpa note about sick calls higher than normal and voila:





UALMEC Forum Update, July 22, 2009

The UALMEC Forum is closed due to a server virus. Please watch the ALPA FastReads for future updates. Thank you.
riiiiiiight a virus---- is it the glen tilton virus

FISHY!!!!!!

ALPA is really pi$$ing me off! Take away our Forum just because we are asking questions that the MEC Chief doesn't want to answer.

ALPA you NEVER cease to amaze me!

Virus.....RIGGGGGGHT

 

[JakeSnake]

I think that this might be good old-fashioned incompetence rather than piracy. Even pirates need to come up with plans and execute them in order to succeed.

No..they are scary sharp. They have been engaged in a systematic and organized beat-down of pilots, FA's, mech's, and every other employee group since at least 2003. They have outmaneuvered ALPA at EVERY turn, and have been able to see a farther horizon than any of the employee groups. From the pension giveaway, no furlough clause giveaway, rj giveaway, E190 giveaway, scope giveaway, block hour giveaway, TRO, etc. etc. etc. Even the "free" TA the pilots got last year, we have come to find out came at a price.

They are not incompetent...you must understand what motivates them (they are NOT motivated by growing this airline from w/in). Once you understand what they are motivated by, it becomes clear that they are executing, with precison, their long-term plan.

Their actions don't sit well with "us"--that is why it can appear that they are incompetent.

Don't be fooled.

 

[glasspilot]

It probably had nothing to do with the recession we are in and businesses pulling back......think.

If you think the loss of the "premium passenger" is a result of the current recession then you are on crack.

Nobody likes to fly commercial. Not the folks in coach and not the rich in first. Now the problem is that those that can afford to leave the airlines do. NetJets started offering fractional flying in 1986. Yeah, that was ya'lls heyday, but it was in 1998 that Warren Buffet (a 3 year customer) decided to financially back NetJets, buy them and that's when things really took off.

Since then an entire fractional industry has cropped up. There are 6 major companies offering everything from a BBJ (Boeing Business Jet (737)) to a piaggio (prop). Added to that each program offers full fractional ownership and newer programs where owners buy time cards so they don't even have to own or pay for the plane. They simply buy a 25 hour card and call when they want to fly. They call and a few hours later a plane drifts out of the sky to their local airport and takes them where ever they want to go. So now your "premium passenger" has so many options that they will NEVER EVER go back 121.

That Piaggio I mentioned costs less than first class on your planes if you break it out by number of seats vs. flight cost and goes nearly as fast (400kts) and up to FL410. The point is the premium passenger has options and it doesnt' cost half as much as you think. They are not comming back. The airlines screwed it up and should just move on. Service the masses and do what you must to keep them happy before some air taxi service moves in and takes them too.

Whatever you do, don't blame the loss of "premium passengers" on a recession that's been around for a year and a half or so. You started losing those passengers well over a decade ago.

 

[Flopgut]

Whatever you do, don't blame the loss of "premium passengers" on a recession that's been around for a year and a half or so. You started losing those passengers well over a decade ago.

Fractionals have a good product, but most of the growth is a result of the exponential growth of the number of ultra wealthy. That won't continue, in fact that number might be decreasing. Additionally, I don't think the tax paradygm is correct for these ops. The FET wasn't collected for most of the time Netjets was called EJA. I'd like to see how much fractionals grow if they were taxed at 40%+ like airline tickets.

Premium passengers might not come back to the airlines in the same numbers they left, but some will. But I wouldn't bet fractionals grow like they did in the last 10 years.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

An observation:

United int'l service blows. But that is what the US gov buys primarily for overseas orders. They will throw out Qatar Air every now and then, and that is what int'l service is supposed to be.

Maybe the recession is what's driving their loads, but that abysmmal entertainment suite on the 777 and the ahem, SWA service on a long haul flight, is probably not helping things.