United new pay tables?

[chppr5]

Doesn't change the facts he wasn't going to merge and we didn't cancel the orders. You got what you voted for the reasons are the same ones 83 hires give.

I wasn't going to bite on this statement but now that you brought it up twice I will. Comparing a SCAB to someone that voted yes on a contract is one of the most ignorant statements I have ever heard. Maybe you should read Flying The Line I and II. I guess having SCABS as mentors over there all these years has really warped your sence of reality. As for LK not wanting to merge in '08, doesn't change the fact CAL came running back in '10 when they realized they were going to be left out of the dance.

 

[eaglesview]

LAX was open before the merger. DEN used to be a base before TORQUE. I'll give you ORD and SFO but the flying being done there is basically the same as CLE in each base.

If we compare apples to apples, why are the last two EWR 737 CA bids being filled with DCA 777 and 767 FO's? Wasn't the crux of your proposal to the 3 arbitrators that LUAL was a WB airline and wanted nothing to do with small airplanes? Funny how you got the list you proposed that heavily favored LUAL but as soon as narrowbody CA seats come available you jump on them like Rodney King on crack.

It is what it is.The only good thing to come from this will be seeing the faces of the "opportunists" that bid those positions after two summers in EWR.

Mostly wide body F/o's going to the left seat, a pretty normal airline progression, plus 767 Capt. Again that is a result of CAL insistence in pay banding. The Guppy pays the same as 757 2oo and just a little less than 767. Watch what you ask for...you might just get it!
As for those summers in Newark....oh dear how awful....like summers in Chicago are any different. Give me a break

 

[RT8VA]

Chopper I never compared you to a scab that term is reserved for the people who did it and are most definitely not my mentors. Simply saying the excuse is the same old thing the fact is you got the contract you voted for no matter what the reason/excuse. You guys aren't scabs and I never said any thing close to that. Just dont bitch about a contract you voted for and make excuses because you choked when we had leverage.

Larry never came back to UAL Jeff did and we all know how good his judgement has been.

 

[RT8VA]

I have read the books I have been an ALPA member for nearly 20 years and have the pin sitting on the shelf so you need not preach to me about SCABS.

 

[Chairman]

So you could fly planes ordered by Larry Kellner I know exactly why it passed. So you could have some thing that was never yours.

And financed by L-UAL cash on hand. Bullet is out if the chamber and since both sides were not working together what did you expect.

 

[chppr5]

I have read the books I have been an ALPA member for nearly 20 years and have the pin sitting on the shelf so you need not preach to me about SCABS.

That's exactly where Jeff wants it!!! BTW I voted no but looking at what's happening with the LUAL f/a's I totally understand why folks voted yes.

 

[RT8VA]

No one I know on the CAL side based their vote on SLI expectations or flying allotment and every one that I know believed myself included that their would be a refined TA in about a month. Seeing as a month would make no difference any way it really wasn't the point. We will never in our careers have the kind of leverage we did when this thing passed, the company reached the point in the time line they finally needed to get it done which is the only reason we had a TA in the first place on 67% jumped on it with all the fear and I have to get mine before some one else moves one spot frenzy it is sickening. We can sing kumbya till the cows come home the next contract will be without leverage, in fact after seeing how lopsided the vote was I am sure they are convinced they gave us too much.

Glad you voted no but for any one saying I had to vote yes it was Jay Pierce's fault it was the LCAL pilots fault it was whoever they want to blames fault caries no weight. We all had our vote, if you liked the contract vote yes, if you didn't but voted yes you cant bitch because I don't want to hear it.

 

[Ex737Driver]

Mostly wide body F/o's going to the left seat, a pretty normal airline progression, plus 767 Capt. Again that is a result of CAL insistence in pay banding. The Guppy pays the same as 757 2oo and just a little less than 767. Watch what you ask for...you might just get it!
As for those summers in Newark....oh dear how awful....like summers in Chicago are any different. Give me a break

It wasn't a normal progression at LUAL. You obviously didn't read your sides entire proposal that blatantly put down 737 flying as trivial and not worth LUAL's time. This was proven by the total amount of RJ flying vs WB flying that was presented at the hearing. Point is without LCAL 737's, your precious WB FO's would not have a pot to piss in for upgrade. Ergo, again, taking what is and what was not yours. Your pilot group was stagnant. No movement, No upgrades. No new airframes. And yet here you are salivating
at the prospect for more upgrades. If they were YOUR upgrades, they would be in YOUR aircraft.

The farce grievance over the past bids is evident by that and an attempt to, for the third time, take what is not yours. You call our culture a scab culture but all the while your group is taking the seats that your side simply said weren't worthy to take. It s pathetic you watch you talk out of both sides of your mouth. I'd call you two-faced and a hypocrite but that insults those two particular subsets of the human population.

I don't recall anyone at LCAL asking for this POS merger. Ask a LUAL 737 CA in October what the thought of his first summer in EWR and I guarantee he is wishing he wasn't stuck in the same seat for another year. GMAFB and SIUYA.

 

[Ex737Driver]

And financed by L-UAL cash on hand. Bullet is out if the chamber and since both sides were not working together what did you expect.

How do you work with a side that lies, cheats, steals, obfuscates, and fabricates the truth to suit their needs to get exactly what they want solely at the expense of the other side? All you need do is look at the SLI. Or possibly the grievance currently being heard of past bids. Or the grievance being heard over profit sharing that had the proposal entertained to take money from LCAL pilots and give it to LUAL pilots. Again, GMAFB and SIUYA!

 

[eaglesview]

It wasn't a normal progression at LUAL. You obviously didn't read your sides entire proposal that blatantly put down 737 flying as trivial and not worth LUAL's time. This was proven by the total amount of RJ flying vs WB flying that was presented at the hearing. Point is without LCAL 737's, your precious WB FO's would not have a pot to piss in for upgrade. Ergo, again, taking what is and what was not yours. Your pilot group was stagnant. No movement, No upgrades. No new airframes. And yet here you are salivating
at the prospect for more upgrades. If they were YOUR upgrades, they would be in YOUR aircraft.

The farce grievance over the past bids is evident by that and an attempt to, for the third time, take what is not yours. You call our culture a scab culture but all the while your group is taking the seats that your side simply said weren't worthy to take. It s pathetic you watch you talk out of both sides of your mouth. I'd call you two-faced and a hypocrite but that insults those two particular subsets of the human population.

I don't recall anyone at LCAL asking for this POS merger. Ask a LUAL 737 CA in October what the thought of his first summer in EWR and I guarantee he is wishing he wasn't stuck in the same seat for another year. GMAFB and SIUYA.

Re paragraph 1. It is comical to listen to a CAL guy refer to our ISL inappropriate in any way.. Did you read the joke your side put up?? All I can say is the arbitrators saw thru that piece of crap and agreed with us that the CAL proposal was out of line. Anyone else's opinion doesn't really matter now does it?

Re paragraph 2.UAL pilots always grieve things that are against the contract or any facet of business that is out of line. Again the Arbitrators, regarding profit sharing, agreed with us. WE the UAL MEC decided NOT to go after CAL pilots wallets so you can stick that argument you know where.

Re paragraph 3.You think L UAL pilots wanted a merger any more or less than CAL pilots did. The reality is people far above our pay grade decided to do it..We are just here for the ride. I personally never even applied to CAL... I got hired at the "U".. Never had to be a CON.

 

[eaglesview]

How do you work with a side that lies, cheats, steals, obfuscates, and fabricates the truth to suit their needs to get exactly what they want solely at the expense of the other side? All you need do is look at the SLI. Or possibly the grievance currently being heard of past bids. Or the grievance being heard over profit sharing that had the proposal entertained to take money from LCAL pilots and give it to LUAL pilots. Again, GMAFB and SIUYA!

Re read the previous post.

 

[dicko]

[FONT=Calibri,Bold]

Captain Pay Rates on January 1, 2014​

[/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Bold][FONT=Calibri,Bold][FONT=Calibri,Bold]

Longevity​

Aircraft 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12​

[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Calibri,Bold][FONT=Calibri,Bold]

A380​

​

[/FONT]​

[/FONT]328.73 331.39 334.11 336.79 339.50 342.17 344.86 347.53 350.23 352.87 355.57 358.27​

When you look at those pay rates, one jumps out at you. It's the highest one, and the one that management knew they were never going to order.

Somebody should have asked Fedex ALPA about the A380 rates, and getting played. Sad and funny. Just not in a good way.

 

[chppr5]

How do you work with a side that lies, cheats, steals, obfuscates, and fabricates the truth to suit their needs to get exactly what they want solely at the expense of the other side? All you need do is look at the SLI. Or possibly the grievance currently being heard of past bids. Or the grievance being heard over profit sharing that had the proposal entertained to take money from LCAL pilots and give it to LUAL pilots. Again, GMAFB and SIUYA!

Now that's comical. Take money from CAL???? You are delusional. Read what the MEC did when the company wanted to claw back the PS you guys got outside of sec 6 (and it wasn't a grievance settlement as some of you believe, a $32M grievance settlement would have been a record X 100. Arb settled that one) Lies cheats and steals is the credo of the LCAL group. - Expanded flying in LUAL bases - Not signing the protocol agreement the DAL/NWA MEC's agreed to in reference to using the JCBA to influence the SLI argument. - Being held hostage unti LUAL agreed to pay banding. - Negotiating PS behind the back of LUAL. - Changing the agreed to wording of Retro to Lump Sum in the JCBA because it woud benefit the LCAL group. - Stapling 3000+ LUAL pilots to the bottom of the LCAL sen list in their SLI proposal. - Not backing LUAL with the training white paper because "training by bulletin is normal ops at LCAL I'm sure there is more but that is off the top of my head. WE agreed to binding arbitration, WE agreed with ALPA merger policy (that was rewritten by a LCAL pilot), WE didn't have any say in this merger. Get over it! I lost just shy of 8 years of longevity, it is what it is! And before you come back with your loss of seniority as of AUG 2013, the snapshot date was OCT 2010, the date the company started to operate as one. You guys got reletive seniority with an airline with 3X as many wide bodies and 2X as many retirements over the next 20 years. UAL was going to be the surviving entity in the consolidation game, just as DAL and AMR were. We had 2 ligtimate partners, LCC and CAL, both of which had a ton of narrow body orders. UAL ordered wide bodies at the beginning ot 2010 knowing that either merger partner had narrow body A/C on order. CAL would never have gotten an industry leading contract as a stand alone let alone grow, as you all seem to believe, after consolidation. You came running back to us when we were on the verge of merging with LCC. Again, out of our hands. You would think CAL was the end all be all of airlines after reading some of these posts. Get over it! Stop the bitching, wear your pin and recognize the real enemy!!! WTF!!!

 

[Ex737Driver]

Now that's comical. Take money from CAL???? You are delusional. Read what the MEC did when the company wanted to claw back the PS you guys got outside of sec 6 (and it wasn't a grievance settlement as some of you believe, a $32M grievance settlement would have been a record X 100. Arb settled that one) Lies cheats and steals is the credo of the LCAL group. - Expanded flying in LUAL bases - Not signing the protocol agreement the DAL/NWA MEC's agreed to in reference to using the JCBA to influence the SLI argument. - Being held hostage unti LUAL agreed to pay banding. - Negotiating PS behind the back of LUAL. - Changing the agreed to wording of Retro to Lump Sum in the JCBA because it woud benefit the LCAL group. - Stapling 3000+ LUAL pilots to the bottom of the LCAL sen list in their SLI proposal. - Not backing LUAL with the training white paper because "training by bulletin is normal ops at LCAL I'm sure there is more but that is off the top of my head. WE agreed to binding arbitration, WE agreed with ALPA merger policy (that was rewritten by a LCAL pilot), WE didn't have any say in this merger. Get over it! I lost just shy of 8 years of longevity, it is what it is! And before you come back with your loss of seniority as of AUG 2013, the snapshot date was OCT 2010, the date the company started to operate as one. You guys got reletive seniority with an airline with 3X as many wide bodies and 2X as many retirements over the next 20 years. UAL was going to be the surviving entity in the consolidation game, just as DAL and AMR were. We had 2 ligtimate partners, LCC and CAL, both of which had a ton of narrow body orders. UAL ordered wide bodies at the beginning ot 2010 knowing that either merger partner had narrow body A/C on order. CAL would never have gotten an industry leading contract as a stand alone let alone grow, as you all seem to believe, after consolidation. You came running back to us when we were on the verge of merging with LCC. Again, out of our hands. You would think CAL was the end all be all of airlines after reading some of these posts. Get over it! Stop the bitching, wear your pin and recognize the real enemy!!! WTF!!!

What, you think the MEC was being magnanimous by saying we are going to do what the company suggested? BS. More bravado and pomp from a dysfunctional leadership. There has been no inkling of support for LCAL pilots since the MEC's merged and that's a fact. We got PS outside of section 6 since we had a section 6 4 years past the amendable date. The LUAL MEC was not going to lift a effin finger to help the LCAL pilots get it. Just sit merrily back and watch the LCAL pilots PS get redistributed to the LUAL pilots. Yeah, that's theft. Ask the EWR 756 pilots how much 767 flying they lost as well as the 756 base in IAH. We got relative -3 years. We were buying aircraft, upgrading pilots, and expanding, all well before the merger. You had orders for aircraft 10 years down the road, no upgrades, and a massively bloated pilot group that still think real-time means a letter delivered by the USPS. Oh, and training by bulletin. Horrible. How pathetic you can't find the info you need or get the basic training required from a CBT. Gotta be led by the nose and spoon fed like a breast-feeding mommas-boy. LCAL was never the end-all to any airline or pilot group but we saw the writing on the wall and that was LUAL was a total ******************** up. Always has been and always will be and now because of that we get to suffer and join you in the media/computer stone-age. Funny thing is we never had these IT problems till ya'll showed up. Funny how those coincide. Who the hell names their computer system after the ********************ed-up machines that destroyed the world in Terminator?

 

[chppr5]

What, you think the MEC was being magnanimous by saying we are going to do what the company suggested? BS. More bravado and pomp from a dysfunctional leadership. There has been no inkling of support for LCAL pilots since the MEC's merged and that's a fact. We got PS outside of section 6 since we had a section 6 4 years past the amendable date. The LUAL MEC was not going to lift a effin finger to help the LCAL pilots get it. Just sit merrily back and watch the LCAL pilots PS get redistributed to the LUAL pilots. Yeah, that's theft. Ask the EWR 756 pilots how much 767 flying they lost as well as the 756 base in IAH. We got relative -3 years. We were buying aircraft, upgrading pilots, and expanding, all well before the merger. You had orders for aircraft 10 years down the road, no upgrades, and a massively bloated pilot group that still think real-time means a letter delivered by the USPS. Oh, and training by bulletin. Horrible. How pathetic you can't find the info you need or get the basic training required from a CBT. Gotta be led by the nose and spoon fed like a breast-feeding mommas-boy. LCAL was never the end-all to any airline or pilot group but we saw the writing on the wall and that was LUAL was a total ******************** up. Always has been and always will be and now because of that we get to suffer and join you in the media/computer stone-age. Funny thing is we never had these IT problems till ya'll showed up. Funny how those coincide. Who the hell names their computer system after the ********************ed-up machines that destroyed the world in Terminator?

When was the last time you got drug tested??? Shares....LCAL, CCS......LCAL, PBS.......LCAL, out of 59 SVP's and above 43 LCAL, 16 LUAL. Smallsak......LCAL. Facts are a terrible thing....Out of my 26 years of flying I never heard anyone say "My career ambition is to fly for Continental".......DAL,AMR,UAL,NWA,SWA,AAA,PAA,TWA but never CAL.......Sorry, I just stooped to your level....Hard to see anything down here...

 

[eaglesview]

When was the last time you got drug tested??? Shares....LCAL, CCS......LCAL, PBS.......LCAL, out of 59 SVP's and above 43 LCAL, 16 LUAL. Smallsak......LCAL. Facts are a terrible thing....Out of my 26 years of flying I never heard anyone say "My career ambition is to fly for Continental".......DAL,AMR,UAL,NWA,SWA,AAA,PAA,TWA but never CAL.......Sorry, I just stooped to your level....Hard to see anything down here...

All those wasted key strokes....I think you had it right in the first sentence.

 

[nimtz]

When was the last time you got drug tested??? Shares....LCAL, CCS......LCAL, PBS.......LCAL, out of 59 SVP's and above 43 LCAL, 16 LUAL. Smallsak......LCAL. Facts are a terrible thing....Out of my 26 years of flying I never heard anyone say "My career ambition is to fly for Continental".......DAL,AMR,UAL,NWA,SWA,AAA,PAA,TWA but never CAL.......Sorry, I just stooped to your level....Hard to see anything down here...

I'm actually on your side when it comes to the cry baby routine from the CAL guys. They sound pathetic. That said, trying to make claims about the superiority of being hired by UAL is tiresome. When UAL was hiring in '07, I didn't even apply. Buddy of mine at UAL told me that I would only be setting myself up for a furlough.

Smart guy and I'm glad the SLI put him senior to me. I'm also quite content to say absent this merger my career ambition included CAL. Sorry it's not April 1997 anymore and I never felt compelled to fill out the scantron.

 

[Shrek]

Kinda funny that you ended up at United anyways Nimtz

There is NO crystal ball in this industry that's for sure.

 

[dojetdriver]

wow, cool.

Not that cool......notice a 767 pays the same as a 747 due to CAL paranoia.

Not cool at all. We are still way underpaid.

Pretty much, not cool. Take a look at contract 2000's rates, that was almost 14 years ago.

I noticed that they had CRJ 900 rates on there.

Things that make you go hmmmmm.

Getting that gage equipment and pay scale on the mainline CBA=good
The pay relative to JB's rate, even they're PREVIOUS rate=NOT GOOD.

 

[IAHERJ]

I wonder if engineers at two large engineering firms would act like the children we do over a merger like this? Seriously. We have not a single captain making less than 200k at this place and we drag ex-con bag tags and old UA wings still being worn etc... Don't get me started on the forum arguments. It's amazing how much we each trashed our own airline operations on our individual forums until the merger. All of a sudden we individually had the better management/fleet/career progression and the other side sucked and would not have survived without "us". We are all a joke and should laugh at ourselves more often.