United/Continental Scope

[Homer Jay]

It's so obvious who the Regional posters and the Major posters are on this thread. I'll say it again, scope is not for sale. Mark my words.

 

[NoJoy]

It's so obvious who the Regional posters and the Major posters are on this thread. I'll say it again, scope is not for sale. Mark my words.

I hope your right. Time will tell; we will be re-visiting this thread in the future to see who won.

 

[JoeMerchant]

The target isn't small jets. The target is over 50 seats. That's where the growth is. Economics will slowly weed out the glut of 50 seaters. They are already being replaced by efficient turboprops.

So 50 seats is a "small jet" and 65 seats isn't? That logic got us into this mess in the first place. The 65-76 seat jets will have to be "bought" if the mainline wants them...and it won't be cheap.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Really? I have a hard time believing both MECs and over 50% of the pilot groups will agree to that.

That maybe true....but then they won't get the small jet flying....How much are you willing to "pay" for it?

 

[Scope out RJ's]

The only possible way the small jet flying MAY come back to mainline is if they undercut the current regional rates and start them off at year one longevity....Now why would I want to start all over again flying the same airplane for much less money and a worse schedule?

Because this time you won't have to buy your job!

It's a suckers bet....

......says the biggest one!

 

[bvt1151]

So 50 seats is a "small jet" and 65 seats isn't? That logic got us into this mess in the first place. The 65-76 seat jets will have to be "bought" if the mainline wants them...and it won't be cheap.

They really don't like to hear this truth. They're more interested in trying to hold a line that can't be held, rather than moving back to the 76-seat line where everybody else is that can be held.

But it's more about their pride than actually stopping scope creep. If they don't move back, scope is going to be at 90, then 100 seats before they even know what hit them.

Every mainline pilot needs to ask themselves a question. Are they more interested in stopping scope creep, or in making loud noises while their senior counterparts sell them out?

 

[Jetjockey]

It's the simple fact that a turbo-prop will not be utilized on the same stage lengths as a jet, therefore less of a mainline replacement on longer routes. My all time favorite. what are you willing to give up? NOTHING!!! I agree, it won't be cheap to stop the outsourcing. This time it won't be labor paying, it will be management.

Delta plus $1 sucks. Everyone in the world knows this was a concessionary agreement while both companies were in bankruptcy. It's a pay cut for CAL pilots, and UAL pilots know they are due much more.

Pull up a chair, the fight is coming. Scope is more of a priority than you guys realize. It won't be give away like before. To the pilots who say it can't be done.........Set your goals low, you'll hit them every time.

SCOPE is not for sale! Any agreement that gives up one seat above 50 is a NO vote for me. Honestly, I doubt anything that relaxes scope will even get past the negotiating committee.

 

[johnpeace]

If I had to bet, I would bet on a restructuring of the industry where 'regional' airlines (with their pay-scales, work rules and lower qualifications) simply take over most of the domestic flying.

I foresee this simply because it's consistent with trends in aviation and in other industries...the race to the bottom and the Walmartization of American labor is not new.

The idea that aviation is going to go backwards up the trend-line and restore pay/benefits, QOL, prosperity to it's workers (at cost to the corporations they work for) just seems to fantastic for me to give it any serious thought.

The idea that our organized labor leaders are going to be the force that take us there is even more fantastic.

Nothing personal, and I personally think it sucks for America and the industry, it's just the trend I've recognized.

All part of that 'new normal' they've been trying to convince us to accept.

We can check back in 5 years to consider the veracity of this prediction...but I see growth at the 'regionals' with them morphing into 'nationals' doing the bulk of domestic US flying in competition with LCCs.

It just seems far more likely and more aligned with existing trends than 'taking it back!' does.