United and Continental Talking....

[AA717driver]

Dear CAL people: Whatever happens, you DO NOT want a recall battle if there is a chance that a merger will happen. Your MEC MUST be unified and get the best people in the right position for the integration.

Trust me, dissention in the ranks will ensure you don't get the best deal possible. TC

 

[EWR_FO]

Dear CAL people: Whatever happens, you DO NOT want a recall battle if there is a chance that a merger will happen. Your MEC MUST be unified and get the best people in the right position for the integration.

Trust me, dissention in the ranks will ensure you don't get the best deal possible. TC

It's not an MEC thing, it's ONE guy shooting his mouth off at an LEC rep. My guess would be that this guy has no idea how a union works anyway, he just knows it sounds tough to say "recall."

 

[Green]

Ah, but there's a difference between being a great leader and a great money man.
Tilton was great at getting United back on track financially; if Goodwin or his successor (Creighton) had stayed at the helm much longer, there likely would not be a United Airlines. He's made a lot of changes at the top levels of United; mostly for the better in terms of financial performance.

I do not think that current United management is incompetent (just look at how much money they extracted from the rank and file employees ); they're just evil, heartless grinches. They do not have the ability/skill to rally the troops and inspire them to do a great job.

UAL management = great money managers, horrible leaders.
CAL management are much better leaders, which is why they're not willing to cede control of CAL's employees to UAL management. After reading about how CAL rebuffed DAL, I can tell you that I'd much rather work for a management team that views loyalty as a two way street.

You are correct that mergers are painful for the rank and file. Just witness all of the gnashing of teeth on this thread over the rumor of a merge.

As far as United's employees getting the shaft if CAL management took over, that's speculation on your part. I think that CAL management is able to look beyond the next quarter and realizes that an AMR/TWA-style merge would not bode well for the company in the long term.

Andy,

I don't know if I would agree that UAL management=great money managers. You guys have some of the lowest costs in the industry and should be making money hand over fist yet Tilton seem to be struggling to make significant profits. I think your market cap is relatively low because Wall Street lacks confidence in your management. If UAL could put Bethune or Parker in the ceo spot I would gamble that overnight the stock price would double. Tilton is a mercenary nothing more nothing less. He was brought in to slash and burn. They paid him a fortune to decimate pay and retirement, then move on. He has done a good job so far.

I don't know if a UAL/CAL merger would be good for future earnings of UAL pilots. CAL guys have historically settled for much less. However most of the UAL pilots with any balls have long since retired. Maybe it will work out well......

 

[bizicmo]

Andy,

I don't know if a UAL/CAL merger would be good for future earnings of UAL pilots. CAL guys have historically settled for much less. However most of the UAL pilots with any balls have long since retired. Maybe it will work out well......

Is this an accurate statement? If you were to look at total compensation including pension would UAL pilots be better off then CAL pilots? And if not would that still mean that CAL pilots settled for less?

 

[Andy]

You guys have some of the lowest costs in the industry and should be making money hand over fist yet Tilton seem to be struggling to make significant profits. I think your market cap is relatively low because Wall Street lacks confidence in your management. If UAL could put Bethune or Parker in the ceo spot I would gamble that overnight the stock price would double. Tilton is a mercenary nothing more nothing less. He was brought in to slash and burn. They paid him a fortune to decimate pay and retirement, then move on. He has done a good job so far.

There are a lot of ways to be profitable without showing a profit.
UAUA's market cap is just over $5B; AMR's is just over $7B. UAUA is not excessively undervalued compared to AMR.
Had Creighton remained at the helm, UAUA would not exist. He was not much better than Goodwin in dealing with the financial crisis at UAUA.
I don't argue your points about Tilton, other than the perception that UAUA is struggling to make profits.

I don't know if a UAL/CAL merger would be good for future earnings of UAL pilots. CAL guys have historically settled for much less. However most of the UAL pilots with any balls have long since retired. Maybe it will work out well......

I don't perceive CAL's pilots in that manner.
Your perception of UAL pilots, while not without merit, is more a reflection on the MEC leadership. I thought that Dubo went too far in one direction, Whiteford too far in the other. I'm OK with Bathurst, but there isn't a lot that can be done at this time ... very little leverage on the part of UAL pilots.

 

[BigShotXJTdrvr]

By the time this happens, UAL will likely be hiring. As mentioned above, in 2000, we had 2 year captains at UAL. We're not that far off from having them again.

Just curious, how do you figure advancement would accelerate so much? I look at United's retirement numbers and they're the same or less as Continental's and United has double the pilot group size, so the relative retirement rate is about 1/2 that of Continental's, I think. (Please correct if I am wrong). Also age 65 is still a wild card.

Maybe you know about staffing requirements for increased int'l flying? That kind of growth could certainly push things along. But based just on retirements it doesn't seem like advancement would be so brisk.

Personally if United starts hiring, I could care less about advancement, as any of about 5 UA bases are better to sit reserve forever than holding a line at any of CAL's armpits.

 

[Sonny Crockett]

Just curious, how do you figure advancement would accelerate so much? I look at United's retirement numbers and they're the same or less as Continental's and United has double the pilot group size, so the relative retirement rate is about 1/2 that of Continental's, I think. (Please correct if I am wrong). Also age 65 is still a wild card.

Maybe you know about staffing requirements for increased int'l flying? That kind of growth could certainly push things along. But based just on retirements it doesn't seem like advancement would be so brisk.

Personally if United starts hiring, I could care less about advancement, as any of about 5 UA bases are better to sit reserve forever than holding a line at any of CAL's armpits.

Is HOU that bad?

Wish we had a MCO or MIA base (we did have an MIA base, but that will soon be an all RJ nightmare!)

 

[ClubORD]

Personally if United starts hiring, I could care less about advancement, as any of about 5 UA bases are better to sit reserve forever than holding a line at any of CAL's armpits.[/quote]


Hell, I'm having as much fun if not more flying out of EWR than I did the 4+ years out of ORD. Maybe it's me?

 

[Booker]

Is HOU that bad?

Yes. Sorry to hear about MIA. I knew one of their CPs, before he was shipped to SFO.

 

[BigShotXJTdrvr]

Is HOU that bad?

Negatives

1) Weather: Do I really need to get into it? TSRA+Tornadoes/Hurricanes/Flooding/Humidity/Heat

2) People: Overall, about as smart as President Bush#2. Drive pickups with large dead animals in the bed or strapped to the hood to "properly" display them. Drive like crackheads. Plenty of Continental scabs in all the best neighborhoods, better keep your garden tools locked up at night.

3) culture: beer on ice at every gas station.

4) Real Estate: Losing only 10% on resale is a great investment.

5) Environment: Depends on how many chemical plant/refinery fires there are in a given year.

Pluses

1) It's cheap--wonder why?

2) NASA is cool.