United and Continental Talking....

[Captzaahlie]

Are you 4 years old? You sound like it. Self portrait?


Bye Bye--General Lee

Sorry Lee,
That was a miss post , it was not intended for this page and i didnt get a chance to clear it before you comment........ but you are right I'm only this many! (holding up 4 fingers) Not a self portrait but a self product.....

 

[SWA/FO]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0612140282dec14,1,7430790.story?page=2&track=rss

says all they are hung up on is the management team... that seems easy to me, use CAL's management.

 

[Flopgut]

I am in a funny (but not so much) position of being furloughed from UAL (appx 100 from the bottom and just got my recall letter) AND a 1 year newhire at CAL.

I looked at both sides from this viewpoint and wish I could figure out the ALPA merger policy and how it would work, exactly. Since DOH is not a factor in the policy, I think that as a CAL newhire, I am better off than my 'furloughed UAL self' in terms of what comes out of a possible merger. CAL upgrades 5 years, UAL 8 years (this is my own research based on junior capts)...

In less than 10 years I expect to be better than halfway up COA's list, while at UAL I would only be at 25% from the bottom. Is this how I should be looking at ALPA's merger policy or is there way more to it? Would they put someone like me close to my percentage (in a merged list) that I currently hold at CAL? I doubt either CAL or UAL could be considered a 'failing carrier', so I don't think either has the upper hand when it comes to arguing which group gets the better deal in a merged list.

Someone mentioned that UAL or CAL could propose hire date. How could hire date be proposed when it's not part of the merger policy? If it's agreed upon then we can add that?

Retirement numbers are very close year to year, but like someone pointed out, UAL has roughly twice the pilots.

Some of you guys who have experience in ALPA or mergers or just know some history....is there a lot more to be considering, or is this basically it?

ALPA merger policy once included DOH and length of service criteria. It's been "refined" over the years. With NWA/REP they added a career expectations metric. DOH is very simple, keeping it simple drives the sharks nuts and that's a good thing. The airlines have similiar fundamentals, it's not entirely inappropriate to suggest we skip arbitration and take a look at some version of DOH. We have to ask ourselves: what kind of airline do we want on the other side of this deal? By all accounts, the combination of these two airlines is supposed to be a VERY lucrative business. Do we want to screw it up and make it like NWA?

I suppose you could pick the date you want to use.

 

[Andy]

By all accounts, the combination of these two airlines is supposed to be a VERY lucrative business.

Just as long as Continental management runs the show.

 

[densoo]

With the leadership change in IAH our MEC is now solid and no weaker than our UAL counterparts.

Which leadership change were you talking about? The one last year or the one in this email I got today! (or the one next week or next month or next year):

December 13, 2006

TO ALL MEMBERS OF THE CAL MEC

Gentlemen and Ladies:

The purpose of this letter is to advise you that your three MEC officers will resign from office effective January 31, 2007.

...........................

It has been an honor and privilege to serve our fellow pilots. We are very pleased with the accomplishments we have helped to achieve, and stand ready to assist our union in the future.

Fraternally,

chill out negotiating merged lists on this forum will serve no purpose other than to give you an ulcer or worse a coronary.

Your merger committee is well prepared relax.

It's getting harder everyday.

 

[Patriot328]

ALPA merger policy once included DOH and length of service criteria. It's been "refined" over the years. With NWA/REP they added a career expectations metric. DOH is very simple, keeping it simple drives the sharks nuts and that's a good thing. The airlines have similiar fundamentals, it's not entirely inappropriate to suggest we skip arbitration and take a look at some version of DOH. We have to ask ourselves: what kind of airline do we want on the other side of this deal? By all accounts, the combination of these two airlines is supposed to be a VERY lucrative business. Do we want to screw it up and make it like NWA?

I suppose you could pick the date you want to use.

Easy for you to say DOH when your DOH doesn't mean the difference between being a captain and being furloughed.

Around 1000 pilots, about 22% of the workforce, have been hired at CAL since UAL last hired in '01.

'01 CAs from CAL would be behind every pilot on UAL's seniority list if it were done DOH.


Maybe some sort of % based integration....

 

[ualdriver]

Flopgut, I agree with you that this could be a VERY lucrative deal if a UAL/CAL went through. This combined airline would either be one of the most powerful airlines on the planet, if not THE most powerful. What kind of airline do we pilots want when we come out of the other end of the merger chute? I personally think this deal will happen at some point. And I think the true "golden "share" owners at NWA can be bought off.

If this deal goes down, I'm a UAL guy and I DO NOT WANT TO SEE MY CAL BROTHERS SCREWED (except the scabs ). I'm a UAL guy and I DO NOT WANT TO SEE MY UAL BROTHERS SCREWED (except the scabs ). If both groups could look at the messes that have happened at TWA/AA, NWA/Republic, etc., and actually go in with the attitude of not trying to screw each other over, I think we could come out with a pretty "fair" deal where both sides might actually serve as an example as to how an ALPA merger should happen. Then again, maybe I'm incredibly naive

 

[Andy]

Easy for you to say DOH when your DOH doesn't mean the difference between being a captain and being furloughed.

Around 1000 pilots, about 22% of the workforce, have been hired at CAL since UAL last hired in '01.

'01 CAs from CAL would be behind every pilot on UAL's seniority list if it were done DOH.

Point very well taken. I hope that my brethren at United understand the point that you are making here. Feels like deja vu all over again, except UAL is in a different position relative to the merger partner.
Relative seniority would be a much more reasonable method. But, as has already been pointed out on this thread my myself and others, I DO NOT represent my fellow United pilots.

And gents, no matter what side you're on, don't lose any sleep over this. I lost a lot of sleep over the aborted UAL/U merge. Turned out to be a wasted effort.

 

[Andy]

And I think the true "golden "share" owners at NWA can be bought off.

I'd say that due to NWA declaring chap 11 reorganization, the golden share no longer exists. The big question is ... what will it take to get UAL management to step aside and let the combined operation be run by one of the best managements in the biz.

 

[CAL EWR B737]

Which leadership change were you talking about? The one last year or the one in this email I got today! (or the one next week or next month or next year):





I was talking about the new IAH reps to take office in March. Now combined with the EWR reps our two largest bases have very strong, forward looking reps who are not afraid to make tough aggressive decisions. I was suprised by the MEC officers annoucement and I respect their decision.

Back during the IACP days we had a very strong leadership but an inherently week union with little or no resoucres. Then we brought in ALPA and all of it's muscle and we elected weak leaders (Contract 02 disaster) supported by a ununifed membership.

Today we have for the first time ever, strong leadership, a solid union and a unified pilot group (because of all of our hiring and attrition). I look at recent events as extremely positive. The CAL pilots are now a force to be reackoned with.

Below is the text of an e-mail I just wrote to our out going MEC Officers.


Dave, Bob and Randy,

I was very surprised to read about your resignation. I understand your reasons and I thank you for your tireless service on behalf of the Continental pilots.

As some of you may know I was very vocal regarding my displeasure with the former MEC Officers. In no way shape or form do you resemble any of them in your leadership style and I believe you all did your very best to represent the Continental pilots .

What has impressed me the most and earned immense respect in my eyes is your decision to resign based on the fact you see a change in the wants in the aggressiveness type of leadership style from the CAL ALPA membership.

As I learned from my significant involvement in the ALPA/IACP merger process back in 2001. On top of the ALPA triangle is membership in the middle is the MEC and the bottom is the President. That is why the membership wears gold ALPA pins and the leadership wears pewter.

That fact that you all have unselfishly put the needs and wants of the membership over your personal needs are extremely admirable. I can say with confidence your predecessors never ever thought this way.

Thank you for your service and dedication to our pilot group. I wish you a and your families a safe and happy holiday season.


Fraternally,


Jayson Baron