Unions, Airlines and Economics

[Publishers]

Hopefully without igniting a debate on Frank Lorenzo, let me say that Eastern was the result of two parties grossly misjudging the other and letting strong personalities take over the negotiation in a personal way, not a business way.

Smellthe is pointing out what I have been trying to. While pilot pay may be the most visible, it is just as much the other employees who are paid more and produce less in these huge unionized companies. The legacies used to want to have their own baggage people, their own catering people, etc etc etc and they all tended to be paid in the context of the heavily union employees. The ramp people are but one example.

 

[enigma]

Hopefully without igniting a debate on Frank Lorenzo, let me say that Eastern was the result of two parties grossly misjudging the other and letting strong personalities take over the negotiation in a personal way, not a business way.

Lorenzo was just the vulture trying to pick at bones. Eastern was dead when he acquired it. For that, we can thank Borman and (if memory serves) Charlie Bryan the head of the Mechanics union.

enigma

PS, this in no way, should be taken to give any level of respect or credibility to Lorenzo. He was at best, a thief.

 

[Publishers]

Strangely, Enigma and I agree on this completely.

Charles Bryan's ego demanded he prove how powerful he was. While he won, he lost the golden goose. Eastern, if I remember right, had some of the highest cost of maintenance of any major airline.

United may be on this same course as we speak.

 

[soarby007]

unions

Name one industry that has thrived under a union? Umm, let me think.

garment industry, auto industry, steel, mines, agriculture, aircraft manufacturing, AIRLINES?

Unions were great under Samuel Gompers and child labor. But where have all the other industries gone? Overseas.

Unions are nothing but a political, corrupt machine that eventually seeks to serve themselves.

 

[Publishers]

Garment -- Hong Kong and China
Cars Japan German
Steel Mines --Gone somewhere
mines --south africa south america
etc etc

 

[TonyC]

Name one industry that has thrived under a union? Umm, let me think.

Don't hurt yourself...


Have you ever seen those big things on the highways that carry lots of stuff in a big boxy looking thingie? They have like this big rectangle box thingie, and it kinda hooks on to a sorta short, cutoff kinda truck-cab thing-uh-muh-bob, and they kinda bend in the middle where they meet, and some of 'em have like this other boxy lookin' thingie that hooks behind the first boxy lookin' thingy and they bend there, too.

I heard ya gotta git a speshul permishun, like a lie-sunz or sumthin ta drive one of them thangs.


trucking - transportation - Teamsters

 

[qmaster3]

Try becoming a shipping agent, and bypassing the unions!

 

[smellthejeta]

Soarboy

Hey Chief -- The tech industry (more specifically, software development) isn't exactly unionized and those jobs are gong overseas. Call centers/tech support aren't union either, and you now get to talk to "Bob" with an Indian accent. Naw, this whole deterioriation of the American way of life has a lot more to do with an imbalanced budget running huge deficits lowering the value of the American dollar, globalization, and an open door trade policy which allows for workers overseas to perform "American" jobs for a much cheaper rate. Has nothing to do with unions. Try again.

Oh, everything you said about unions applies to management too. Seems that they're corrupt and do nothing but serves themselves. After all, when they cut my paycheck, they get a bonus.

 

[Publishers]

trucking, have you seen any of the owner operator numbers versus growth in union trucking.

 

[TonyC]

trucking, have you seen any of the owner operator numbers versus growth in union trucking.

Hey, you asked for one, I gave you one. This question isn't relevant to the challenge you made.

Is not the trucking industry thriving?

 

[English]

My dad is a truck driver for a very large unionized carrier.

He makes more money than a 9 year American Eagle captain, and is home every night. 60k a year with full benefits. He's only been there a year.

 

[enigma]

My dad is a truck driver for a very large unionized carrier.

He makes more money than a 9 year American Eagle captain, and is home every night. 60k a year with full benefits. He's only been there a year.

English, let us know the company. If Spirit follows through on its Chapter 11 threat, I may need that number. Oh, and the number for a good driving school.

When do you loose the Incognito bit?

enigma

 

[Dan CFI/CFII]

How many of the owner/operators are Teamsters? If you don't know about the trucking industry, this isn't your case pub. The industry is also in a slow decline, much like aviation. I don't think it will ever get as bad, but see if the local library carries the ATHS journal "Wheels of Time." It's not like it used to be...

And if you're looking to get into trucking, check the local paper, or Call Swift, they hire an awful lot of "low milers." There are more places to get trained for a Class A CDL than you can shake a stick at.

Dan

 

[Publishers]

I think that it is a pretty well acknowleged fact that unionism is down in this country in the private sector. My points are not for or against, merely pointing out that some things are different in union companies.

Many systems work fine in growing economies, industries, and companies that have severe problems working in a shrinking economy, industry or company.

 

[enigma]

Many systems work fine in growing economies, industries, and companies that have severe problems working in a shrinking economy, industry or company.

Ya wanna translate this for us bubbas?


TonyC, where are ya when I need ya bud?

enigma