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Union Questions (FLOPs pilot)

guido411

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I didn't think that the IBT board was a good place to ask these questions since I had to use my own name there so here is the next best place.

1.) I am actually suprised that this hasn't been covered on our message board. I heard about the Teamsters' split from the AFL-CIO. What does this mean? How will the Teamster's be viewed in the union community now? I don't know a lot about the issue but it seems to me a rather cavalier and "go-it-your-own" move. Any comments?

2.) Nothing against the Teamsters, I do beleive that with us and NJA organized together we would have a very powerful bargaining tool. But why is it that ALPA has no interest in the fractional industry? How much has their interest been investigated? ALPA historically had no interest in regional airlines till they realized they were making up a larger part of the industry, now they represent many small airlines. Airlines small enough that would make it seem if FLOP's and NJA's pilots were together we would be larger than many of their small airlines, and thus be worth representing. Comments?

Thanks
 

tubelcane

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Father Sarducci,

Why in the H E double hockey sticks would you want ALPA to represent us? I can speak from experience (Allegheny and TWA). They suck! All they did was take everyone's money and waste it. When it came down to, they couldn't do anything the membership payed their dues for. At Allegheny we tried to get RJ's on the property and/or a flowthrough agreement. Well they represented USAir also. Who do you think they sided with hmmm 400 pilots or 5000, let me think. We didnt get squat. Now there is no Allegheny!
I left there for TWA in 2000. Don't even get me started about what happened there.
ALPA leaving AFLCIO is actually a good thing for them I think. AFL is too concerned with getting democrats elected, not bettering their members pay and benies. Just my opionion of course.
 

FLYLOW22

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If anything, the spit may spawn a resurgence in Unionized labor. Having more than 1 predominant Unionized group will produce competition to draw members and hence increase the service received by the member. I think it will ultimately be a good thing long-term.
 

guido411

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tubelcane,

Don't know if you're a FLOPs pilot or not, but many on the premesis have the opinion that the Teamsters are nothing but a "trucker's union." The split may concern more of our undecided pilots on the issue of organization and weaken their confidence in the Teamsters. No union can be perfect, never said ALPA would be, but they're more well known in the business. The Teamsters backed Chautauqua in taking below standard pay just to fly bigger airplanes (EMB170), IMHO not a well thought out decision.
 

FLYLOW22

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guido411 said:
tubelcane,

The Teamsters backed Chautauqua in taking below standard pay just to fly bigger airplanes (EMB170), IMHO not a well thought out decision.

I can tell you that with Teamsters, you get what you put in. There is less structural infrastructure with Teamsters than with ALPA, unless your Exec Board designs the structure. Teamsters have more flxibility to let your Local adapt how it needs to.

ALPA is more plug n play but waaaay less flexible with the needs of individual airlines. ALPA spends alot on ALPAPAC to conveigh their issues to Capitol Hill. Teamsters have less.

ALPA represents and understands airline pilots only. They did a poor job of wooing EJA pilots to unionize with them in the past. ALPA did not understand and did not show interest in learning the way Frax pilots work. But that was the past... maybe ALPA has changed?? I bet not though.

Sometimes the best thing seems to be a Union for Frax pilots, by Frax pilots.
 

FLOPSouth

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As an ex-APLA member, I have just one thought:


SAY "NO"

Keep your money and keep the ball in your court.
 

tubelcane

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Guido,

I start my 3rd year at Options this month. Not that it matters. Alpa is not the answer. The teamsters may not be the answer. But Netjets finally has some leadership that seems to know what they are doing and aren't puppets for management. When they get a successful resolution with their contract, I know it's been a long time coming, the "fencesitters" will be able to make up their mind hopefully. Since having no say so in pay and lifestyle issues does'nt fire them up at all. I would guess most of these sideline fellows aren't Tier 3 guys. They probably live in Tier 1s and fly bigger equipment. Some of the large cabin crews have no idea how unhappy the Beechjunk and Hawker crews are. And why should they care? Life is grand where they sit.
 

Stealthh21

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Hey now, just have a question. Not trying to stir up anything. But what is happening at Flight Options that there is a Union forming? Or is it just like an insurance policy? Are the pilots there being treated badly? I talked to a FltOps pilot a month ago, and he nothing but good things to say about the company.

regards
 

tubelcane

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Understatement of the decade......Flight Options pilots and owners are unhappy!
 

guido411

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Stealth,

I'll give you 10-1 odds that the guy you talked to was brand new or sitting in a DA50 or CL601. Like tubelcane said, the hawker and bj guys are the grunt worker bees of FLOPs, and thus we are the most unhappy.

. . .and to All,

Don't get me wrong, sent my card in long ago, just somewhat worried that the Teamster's latest moves will shake the confidence of "The fence-sitters." I don't claim to know much about ALPA but wondered if the pure name recognition that they have might sway some of those people. But for now, steady the course it sounds. I appreciate hearing others' opinions on ALPA and Teamsters.
 

FLYLOW22

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If anything the Teamsters latest move should provide some much needed "competition" within the Unions to provide even better representation.
 

SheGaveMeClap

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guido411 said:
I didn't think that the IBT board was a good place to ask these questions since I had to use my own name there so here is the next best place.

Haven't you registered with the ASAP website? It's safe, only the moderators see your real name. I would say half of our pilots have registered, if not more. Then you can ask all the questions you want there.
 

Buck450

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A union is only as strong as the people who are elected to lead it and the unity of the pilots who follow. It is not a magic organization that does wonderous things. In my opinion unions are a necessity and can be a good thing, both for the company and the workers. Only when greedy management and power hungry leaders do unions get bad names.
 

Stealthh21

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guido411 said:
Stealth,

I'll give you 10-1 odds that the guy you talked to was brand new or sitting in a DA50 or CL601. Like tubelcane said, the hawker and bj guys are the grunt worker bees of FLOPs, and thus we are the most unhappy.

. . .QUOTE]

No he was flying the hawker 800XP. He said he had been there for a year or so. How many hours a month do you guys fly???
 

guido411

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Stealth,

Impossible. A guy who has been here only a year would have ZERO chance at holding an XP slot. I can only say for the BJ but an average tour for me goes around 25 hours. 2 tours a month makes it around 50 hrs or 500-600 per year.
 

Publishers

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the split in the AFL-CIO shows that the trend has continued and that unions do not have anything like the strength they once commanded.

If there is an irony it is that the group that chants unity among the workers cannot hold itself together either.

The problem of course is that unions became big business of themselves -- the very thing that they supposedly fought. They becamse strictly interested in dues and who paid them. I personally think it is the result of a population that is more independant and less likely to stay at a job for an entire career --even one that pays well.
 
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