Union coming at Flexjet!

[dime line]

Jetmaster and lunberg, that's one of the few legitimate reasons to vote union. Now, on your part, show me one, just one, instance where someone has been fired from Flexjet that didn't have just cause. If someone goofs up now, they explain to the ACP what happened, get's talked to or slapped on the wrist (unless the FAA expects more), and it's done. It's just one reason why I don't vote for a union AT Flexjet. If we unionize here, then you can bet any goofy moron that slips thru the hiring process and gets hired will have the full protection(if his dues are fully paid) of the union no mater what he does or who he kills.
WL

There were 70 over at FLOPS that were fired without "Just Cause"!

 

[John MClain]

Most of us non-union pilots are not disagreeing that this flying gig isn't hard at times. What I'm asking is how a union is going to help....still no answer, cause you don't have one. The job will still be difficult after(if) a union comes on property, probably will be easier since my pockets will be a lot lighter. I think a lot of pro-union guys want to unionize 'cause it's the trendy thing to do now.....show me I'll get my monies worth voting union and I'll join your little conga line. And JokerFuel is right....keep this thread civil...it is open to anyone, and both sides are expressing their opinions.
WL

How about having a say in what and how our FOM and CFM's get changed?

Here's just one example: Early show limited duty time was changed/reduced by 1 minute. That 1 minute garnered an additional 2 hours of duty on those very early start days. And there are lots more. Every time you log on to the Bluebelly and acknowledge the changes to our manuals and essentially how we do business is just another missed opportunity for us to have a say in our future.

How about having a level and consistent policy regarding compliance with those manuals? As of now, they can change and or disregard all non-regulatory procedures in order to make a piece of a puzzle fit that would not otherwise never be feasible because of someone else's incompetence.

These situations happen on a regular basis. It's seems as though the only ones held accountable and are required to have 100% compliance with these documents are the crewmembers.

 

[lr45drvr]

warlord -

A union doesn't prevent terminations for just cause. It just adds a process to insure that the just cause provisions are met. I know of a number of NetJets pilots that have been fired for just cause.

Next strawman please.

This is absolutely true. A person can still be terminated for just cause regardless of union representation.

The question still stands- Who has ever been fired, without cause, from Flexjet? I'm not aware of 1 single instance.

If you make a mistake, own it! Unless you killed a bus load of nuns with the CVR saying "watch this", I'd bet you're safe.

Unions are like herpes- you can't just get rid of em. Once you feed the cat, he's gonna move in and crap in your bed. There isn't anything you can do to stop it.

Look at who the IBT represents- all the bottom feeders (FLOPS Excluded)
Sorry but I don't want to have to pay extra money from my check into a strike fund, because Ameriflight or Kalitta depleted it.

 

[notapilot]

Most of us non-union pilots are not disagreeing that this flying gig isn't hard at times. What I'm asking is how a union is going to help....still no answer, cause you don't have one. The job will still be difficult after(if) a union comes on property, probably will be easier since my pockets will be a lot lighter. I think a lot of pro-union guys want to unionize 'cause it's the trendy thing to do now.....show me I'll get my monies worth voting union and I'll join your little conga line. And JokerFuel is right....keep this thread civil...it is open to anyone, and both sides are expressing their opinions.
WL

No one can tell you why you need a union. This is a decision you need to make for yourself. I pay $9000/year for different insurance policies. Why would we not be willing to pay tax deductable insurance dues for our careers that affords us the luxury to pay for all these other policies.

Being a pilot is a little different than most other professions. If you change jobs in most other professions you can have a fair shot at finding a comparable paying job in a reasonable period of time. If you have been at Flexjet for 8 or more years it will likely take you over a decade to get back to where you were monetarily.

We have no recourse if a third party purchases our company and decides to slash benefits, rules, and pay. We have no united crewmember voice to deal with integration if we are purchased by a competitor.

We don't wholly trust Bombardier, Flexjet, or Jet Solutions.

The latest focus group has identified our concerns. Re-read the email sent discussing the top 5 issues management has decided to tackle. Ask yourself if their solutions or lack of solutions are appropriate to the concerns.

This is not a trendy decision. Ask any Netjets pilot if their contract is well worth their dues. The argument of a union protecting the inept is laughable. We already have our share of inept that the company chooses not to deal with. You are correct that most everyone has been reasonably terminated. So where do these rumors about unjust firings come from. The culture here is to not reprimand for the serious act, but put it in their back pocket and eventually reprimand for a future senseless reason. This a method to control through fear and intimidation. Why do you think so many are so fearful of their jobs at Flexjet.

Let's get this straight right now. No pro-union pilot is anti-Flexjet. It is in fact the opposite. Whether you are pro or anti union, I can assure you that we all have the same goals in mind. I am proud of the positive tone taking place on the IBT board. The tone here is pretty much the opposite due to anti-union bloggers. Who are the thugs again?

 

[NewFlex]

This is absolutely true. A person can still be terminated for just cause regardless of union representation.

The question still stands- Who has ever been fired, without cause, from Flexjet? I'm not aware of 1 single instance.

If you make a mistake, own it! Unless you killed a bus load of nuns with the CVR saying "watch this", I'd bet you're safe.

Unions are like herpes- you can't just get rid of em. Once you feed the cat, he's gonna move in and crap in your bed. There isn't anything you can do to stop it.

Look at who the IBT represents- all the bottom feeders (FLOPS Excluded)
Sorry but I don't want to have to pay extra money from my check into a strike fund, because Ameriflight or Kalitta depleted it.

Hey ACP, aren't you late for lunch with the other trolls today. Oh, that's right, you don't get invited to hang with the other trolls do you. So sad, not even good enough to hang with the other scared little office boys. Have fun working on your FUD project.

later DWAYNE, now back in your hole

 

[John MClain]

No one can tell you why you need a union. This is a decision you need to make for yourself. I pay $9000/year for different insurance policies. Why would we not be willing to pay tax deductable insurance dues for our careers that affords us the luxury to pay for all these other policies.

Being a pilot is a little different than most other professions. If you change jobs in most other professions you can have a fair shot at finding a comparable paying job in a reasonable period of time. If you have been at Flexjet for 8 or more years it will likely take you over a decade to get back to where you were monetarily.

We have no recourse if a third party purchases our company and decides to slash benefits, rules, and pay. We have no united crewmember voice to deal with integration if we are purchased by a competitor.




We don't wholly trust Bombardier, Flexjet, or Jet Solutions.

The latest focus group has identified our concerns. Re-read the email sent discussing the top 5 issues management has decided to tackle. Ask yourself if their solutions or lack of solutions are appropriate to the concerns.

This is not a trendy decision. Ask any Netjets pilot if their contract is well worth their dues. The argument of a union protecting the inept is laughable. We already have our share of inept that the company chooses not to deal with. You are correct that most everyone has been reasonably terminated. So where do these rumors about unjust firings come from. The culture here is to not reprimand for the serious act, but put it in their back pocket and eventually reprimand for a future senseless reason. This a method to control through fear and intimidation. Why do you think so many are so fearful of their jobs at Flexjet.

Let's get this straight right now. No pro-union pilot is anti-Flexjet. It is in fact the opposite. Whether you are pro or anti union, I can assure you that we all have the same goals in mind. I am proud of the positive tone taking place on the IBT board. The tone here is pretty much the opposite due to anti-union bloggers. Who are the thugs again?

Very well written.

The opposing view should be very entertaining.

 

[lr45drvr]

Hey ACP, aren't you late for lunch with the other trolls today. Oh, that's right, you don't get invited to hang with the other trolls do you. So sad, not even good enough to hang with the other scared little office boys. Have fun working on your FUD project.

later DWAYNE, now back in your hole

You're WAAAAY OFF!


"No pro-union pilot is anti-Flexjet"---------

Is this what PRO-Union/PRO-Flexjet people write? Very Productive! We need more people like you!

PLEASE EDUCATE YOURSELVES GUYS AND GALS!!!!!!

This is not something to be taken lightly. Be careful of what you read and hear. It doesn't matter what side you are on. I urge you to educate YOURSELF. This decision ultimately affects YOU as an individual as well as the whole group!

 

[lr45drvr]

No one can tell you why you need a union. This is a decision you need to make for yourself. I pay $9000/year for different insurance policies. Why would we not be willing to pay tax deductable insurance dues for our careers that affords us the luxury to pay for all these other policies.

Being a pilot is a little different than most other professions. If you change jobs in most other professions you can have a fair shot at finding a comparable paying job in a reasonable period of time. If you have been at Flexjet for 8 or more years it will likely take you over a decade to get back to where you were monetarily.

We have no recourse if a third party purchases our company and decides to slash benefits, rules, and pay. We have no united crewmember voice to deal with integration if we are purchased by a competitor.

We don't wholly trust Bombardier, Flexjet, or Jet Solutions.

The latest focus group has identified our concerns. Re-read the email sent discussing the top 5 issues management has decided to tackle. Ask yourself if their solutions or lack of solutions are appropriate to the concerns.

This is not a trendy decision. Ask any Netjets pilot if their contract is well worth their dues. The argument of a union protecting the inept is laughable. We already have our share of inept that the company chooses not to deal with. You are correct that most everyone has been reasonably terminated. So where do these rumors about unjust firings come from. The culture here is to not reprimand for the serious act, but put it in their back pocket and eventually reprimand for a future senseless reason. This a method to control through fear and intimidation. Why do you think so many are so fearful of their jobs at Flexjet.

Let's get this straight right now. No pro-union pilot is anti-Flexjet. It is in fact the opposite. Whether you are pro or anti union, I can assure you that we all have the same goals in mind. I am proud of the positive tone taking place on the IBT board. The tone here is pretty much the opposite due to anti-union bloggers. Who are the thugs again?

Without a doubt this is well written. And I do agree that we have the same goals in mind- a better place to work. However, there are no guarantees even with a union.


I'm not sure about your back pocket reprimand theory??? I would need to hear of some specifics.

I don't wholly trust at least one of the afformentioned groups either. But I have to believe that the people who lead the ones that rhyme with Rexbet and Fromfartyhay, have their own best interests in mind (i.e. keeping the company profitable and moving forward, which includes appeasing the employees reasonable needs and requests), which in turn protects my own interests. Even Pet Revolutions has our best interests in mind if you consider how well they keep the feds appeased. One thing I do know for a fact is that I don't trust the Teamsters.

Just look up this link:

http://www.unionfacts.com/unions/uniondecertification.cfm?id=55

I don't think anyone within our 3 organizations has ever been accused of whats on there.

 

[notapilot]

"No pro-union pilot is anti-Flexjet"---------

Is this what PRO-Union/PRO-Flexjet people write? Very Productive! We need more people like you!

I think my message was pretty straight forward. I won't get involved in your anti-union vicious personal attacks. I am just curious what issue you have with my statement.

 

[doh]

I have another question. Since we are not under the RLA, can management change the rules after we certify the union? We don't have stutus quo restrictions do we?