Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

Unfriggin believable!!

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web

Rottweiller

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 26, 2001
Posts
429
RJ Defense Coalition
Ensuring One Level of Representation
www.rjdefense.com

Reply to: [email protected]

SPECIAL BULLETIN

August 3, 2004

ALPA Ignores Rank-and-File Vote and Imposes New Small Jet Provisions at PSA

Just weeks after a rejection by the rank-and-file, ALPA has ignored the wishes of the PSA pilots and implemented changes to the PSA working agreement. The new agreement includes special provisions that will give displaced mainline pilots super-seniority rights over the majority of PSA pilots for the purpose of bidding monthly schedules.[1]

While ALPA's actions has provoked outrage amongst the PSA pilots, it shouldn't come as any surprise to anyone who has been following ALPA's conduct at US Airways. As first reported by the RJDC four months ago, ALPA's latest small jet agreement at US Airways (LOA-91) indicated that ALPA's mainline interests had already dictated the terms of the yet-to-be negotiated PSA agreement.[2]

“New-Hires” In Name Only

Events at PSA illustrate how ALPA seeks to disguise the efforts of its mainline interests to unilaterally re-write key sections of “regional” pilot agreements. ALPA says that displaced mainline pilots (“APL pilots”) will be treated as “new-hires” at the Jets for Jobs carriers. But through the manipulation of various contractual mechanisms, the “new-hires” are actually afforded super-seniority rights with privileges denied other pilots. Here's a short list of some of the special rights granted to the displaced mainline pilots that proves that they're “new-hires” in name only:

Ø Out-of-seniority bidding rights for monthly schedules.

Ø 50% of the APL pilots start out as Captains, the other 50% will upgrade out of seniority.

Ø 50% start out at Captains pay; the other 50% do not start out at ordinary first-year pay-rates.

Ø APL pilots will not start out in the turbo-prop equipment (i.e. “jets only.”)

Ø No probationary period.

Ø Protected seats in the event of furlough.

Ø Guaranteed positions at other carriers if the small jets are transferred.

Management's Demands—Not!

ALPA's spin-doctors will tell the rank-and-file that “management” came to the affected pilots with various demands. But what they will not tell the rank and file is that with regard to “Jets for Jobs,” ALPA is merely using management to deliver the union’s own mainline demands. To make matters worse, upon receipt of “management's” demands, ALPA pretends to “assist” and “advise” the targeted pilot group in the resultant negotiations.

As the RJDC first pointed out more than three years ago, “left-over bargaining” is the result whenever ALPA ignores its duties to the union’s “regional” members at the mainline bargaining table. Events at PSA are the direct consequence of ALPA's predatory bargaining at US Airways (LOA-91). To add to the injustice, ALPA pretends it's negotiating with the affected carrier's management when, in fact, the union is forcing the affected pilot group to accept terms that have already been dictated by the union’s own mainline interests.

Even if management “tacks-on” its own economic demands, there can be no doubt that the trigger mechanism was ALPA's preconditions imposed in the preceding mainline negotiations. Therefore, the responsibility lies with ALPA, which is duty-bound to protect, not undermine, the interests of the PSA pilots.

“Slotted” Bidding Detailed

As an example of how ALPA imposed super-seniority rights at PSA, the following is selected portions of the new agreement detailing the “slotted” bidding system:

Ø “A bidding system will be established that provides for alternating bidding for monthly bids (“Regular Schedules,” “Build Up Schedules” or “Reserve Schedules”) (as defined in the PSA Collective Bargaining Agreement) for a certain percentage of US Airways pilots (U pilots) at PSA.”

Ø “Each month, in each domicile, a bidding sequence shall be created for Captains (or First Officers) so that the first pilot to bid for his monthly schedule shall be a P pilot, followed next by a U pilot, followed next by a P pilot, followed next by a U pilot, etc., until reaching the most junior U pilot Captain (or First Officer) who is to bid under the alternating bidding procedure, in that base, for that month.”

Ø “The above described alternating bidding sequences shall apply regardless of a U pilot's seniority position relative to any P pilot's seniority position and regardless of a P pilot's seniority position relative to any U pilot's seniority position.” (Emphasis Added)

Full Text of PSA Agreement: http://www.rjdefense.com/2004/psa_loa_8.pdf

Did ALPA Threaten or Mislead the PSA Pilots?

Perhaps equally disturbing is that ALPA's officials may have deliberately misled the PSA pilot leadership. According to published reports, ALPA's officials told the PSA leadership that the Piedmont pilots were in simultaneous negotiations with the intention of undercutting the PSA pilots and perhaps taking their existing aircraft.[3] Furthermore, the PSA pilot leadership has publicly stated that they were personally told by ALPA's President that they had “24-48 hours” to accept the agreement.[4]

If the assertions of the PSA leadership are true and ALPA did in fact threaten or mislead the PSA pilots, then ALPA's officials may have breached their duty to the PSA pilots in numerous ways:

1. If the Piedmont pilots were not actively “bidding” against the PSA pilots, then ALPA deliberately misled its own members with false information.

2. Even if the Piedmont pilots were in negotiations, then ALPA breached its duties to the PSA pilots by allowing another ALPA pilot group to “bid” for their aircraft and jobs.

3. Either way, ALPA breached its duties by pitting one pilot group against another in order to coerce them to accept terms that had already been dictated by the union’s mainline interests.

ALPA's hypocrisy is more than obvious. While ALPA frequently accuses management of “whipsawing” one pilot group against another, the union itself doesn't hesitate to invoke its own whipsaw to force its “regional” members to capitulate to its own mainline demands.[5]

Full text of ALPA's LOA-91 at US Airways: http://www.rjdefense.com/2004/loa91.pdf

Summary

Once again ALPA has demonstrated that it will ignore its duties whenever it is politically expedient to do so. Not only has ALPA apparently employed highly questionable tactics to compel the PSA MEC to “ratify” a new agreement, but it has again proven that the real objective of “Jets for Jobs” is not to secure employment for displaced mainline pilots, but rather to protect the union’s two-tiered system of representation.

By railroading a new agreement at PSA, not only has ALPA's leadership demonstrated total disregard for its obligations to the PSA pilots, but they have again shown why litigation remains the only credible deterrent to prevent ALPA from engaging in the same tactics at Delta.

Jets-for-Jobs Fact Sheet: http://www.rjdefense.com/2004/J4J_FactSheet.pdf
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[1] Under the previous Jets for Jobs agreement, half of the new Captain and First Officer positions were set aside for displaced mainline pilots, but they remained at the bottom of their respective monthly bid eligibility lists.

[2] See the RJDC's April 4th and May 16th Updates.

[3] The Piedmont pilot leadership has officially denied that any such negotiations ever took place.

[4] As stated by the PSA MEC in their July 23, 2004 recorded message to their pilots.

[5] ALPA's latest small-jet agreement at US Airways clearly indicates that the mainline terms will be offered to “participating” carriers on a take it or leave it basis.
 
Dash8 said:
and this surprised anyone how? wonder how general lee will try to spin this...

time for a revolution
How about with some facts, instead of RJDC rhetoric.


PSA ALPA Pilots Reach Agreement on 70-Seat Jets

DAYTON, OH -- The PSA Airlines pilots, represented by the Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA), International, late last week approved a letter of agreement (LOA) with their management, spelling out the terms and conditions for operating 70-seat jets. By a vote of 8-1, the pilot leadership ratified the proposal.

"We are extremely pleased to reach a settlement with our management for this aircraft" said Capt. William Barnett, secretary-treasurer of the PSA pilots’ unit of ALPA. "We want to see PSA prosper and grow. The operation of these larger jets will help us to provide better service and coverage for our portion of the US Airways network."

The PSA MEC elected by the PSA pilots overwhelmingly voted for the LOA.
 
Last edited:
For new hires?

Since I am new to all of this contract and LOA stuff,

how does this in plain english affect the current pilot group and also how does would this affect a potential new hire?


Thanks,
 
FDJ2 said:
By a vote of 8-1, the pilot leadership ratified the proposal.

The PSA MEC elected by the PSA pilots overwhelmingly voted for the LOA.
Correct, they voted, not the pilots. Why wouldn't the PSA pilots flying the line want to give up everything to the U pilots? Sign me up!
 
As an outsider reading LOA 8, it seems to me that senior MEC leadership at PSA is ensuring their survival at the cost of the PSA pilot group. Good luck boys and girls, if I were in your shoes I would be looking at getting rid of the MEC as fast as possible, it does not sound as if he has your best interest in mind. Just my thoughts.
 
Don't shift the blame. The real culprit is the policies of the National union, not the PSA MEC. The only thing the PSA MEC is guilty of is repeatedly allowing themselves to be duped.

It's up to the PSA pilots how they want to deal with that. If they're smart, what they need is a lawyer.
 
surplus1 said:
It's up to the PSA pilots how they want to deal with that. If they're smart, what they need is a lawyer.
Ah yes. The panacea for all that's wrong. Get a lawyer. :rolleyes:

Yep. That's smart. Smart for the lawyer. By all means, get a lawyer. Prove how "smart" you are.
 
FarginDooshbahg said:
Ah yes. The panacea for all that's wrong. Get a lawyer. :rolleyes:

Yep. That's smart. Smart for the lawyer. By all means, get a lawyer. Prove how "smart" you are.
Not a panacea by any means, but it beats having your seniority stolen by your alleged friends. If they aren't willing to spend a few bucks to defend their rights, then maybe they should lose those rights.

In any case, it's their call.
 
surplus1 said:
Don't shift the blame. The real culprit is the policies of the National union, not the PSA MEC. The only thing the PSA MEC is guilty of is repeatedly allowing themselves to be duped.

It's up to the PSA pilots how they want to deal with that. If they're smart, what they need is a lawyer.
It's a conspiracy...I'm sure DW showed up with his posse and held a gun to the MEC Chair's head and made them sign...
 
T-Gates said:
It's a conspiracy...I'm sure DW showed up with his posse and held a gun to the MEC Chair's head and made them sign...
It's not a conspiracy, it's an outright plan to steal. While I wasn't there, I don't doubt that he did, everyone has an "MO".

When a robber invades your house you have 3 choices. 1) Shoot him - In which case you'll have to higher a lawyer to defend you. 2) Call the cops and file a complaint - there are no "cops" on this beat; those that should be the police are a part of the robbery gang; 3) Hire a good lawyer and sue the gang to recover what is yours.

We know who the robbers are. This isn't the first time they've "hit".
 
T-Gates said:
It's a conspiracy...I'm sure DW showed up with his posse and held a gun to the MEC Chair's head and made them sign...
Yep... if you consider Piedmont a weapon. Even though Piedmont swears they new nothing about negotiating to take the flying.

Looks like a pretty good case of lying and whipsawing on the part of National to me!
 
D woerth (aka) airways management and pilots at this time have the same goals as it relates to rj's. ML pilots will not cooperate with management unless they get as much as possible out of the deal for their pilots. this is at the expense of the WO guys. Mgmt does not care as long as they get what they want. D woerth will go to almost any length for his beloved ML pilots. What is left is the double whammy against the WO guys. If the mec is not smart enough to see this or have the gonads to stand up to it you get exactly what has happened to PSA and ALG (rip).
 
surplus1

You have hit the nail on the head each and every time!

The majority of the powers that VOTE at the MEC are fairly junior, they voted this in on what someone said someone said.

FDJ2

Your facts are only part of the picture. The following are clips from a news section of a PSA websight.

XXXX said that he and XXXXXXX were in a meeting about the CEL in Washington on Wednesday when they learned that Piedmont was in separate talks to achieve a Jets-for-Jobs "700-deal." XXXX said the ALPA President told him, "You've got 24-48 hours."

The PSA hotline included in the brief that PDT was also after future deliveries as well as our current 50 seat crj 200 aircraft.


The PDT/ALG hotlines stated that there were no negotations. The ALG hotline claims to have made and unsuccessful attempted to contact the PSA MEC.


Someone LIED somewhere and as of yet the PSA mec has failed to investigate the fraud. So calling it RJDC rhetoric is far from the truth.
 
T-Gates said:
It's a conspiracy...I'm sure DW showed up with his posse and held a gun to the MEC Chair's head and made them sign...
You're not paying very close attention to this man. He has a history now of "advising" MEC's what's best for them but really it's only what's best for the Big Boys. And it's no conspiracy, it's just business. ALPA panders to it's larger sources of income and abuses the weak.
 
TWA Dude said:
You're not paying very close attention to this man. He has a history now of "advising" MEC's what's best for them but really it's only what's best for the Big Boys. And it's no conspiracy, it's just business. ALPA panders to it's larger sources of income and abuses the weak.
I know plain well that ALPA national is not unfoulable, not in the least. But some people like to solely blame national for bad union descisions. In this case I agree and know full well that national certainly was lobbying for the passage of the LOA. But some people like to use ALPA national as a quick scapegoat when sh!t goes south, rather than looking closer to home at elected MEC officials. Because in the end, they are the ones with thier signatures on the LOA.

The only reason I responded as tersely as I did is I am sick of people ignoring thier own elected MEC officials, and immediately blaming national for thier woes. (Even though I concede that they have just as much of a hand in it as the MEC)

Just a bad day! ;)
 
TWA Dude said:
You're not paying very close attention to this man. He has a history now of "advising" MEC's what's best for them but really it's only what's best for the Big Boys. And it's no conspiracy, it's just business. ALPA panders to it's larger sources of income and abuses the weak.
Congratulations! Spoken like a true victim of similar abuse. Some predators do eat their young (and sometimes their old too.)
 
TWA Dude said:
You're not paying very close attention to this man. He has a history now of "advising" MEC's what's best for them but really it's only what's best for the Big Boys. And it's no conspiracy, it's just business. ALPA panders to it's larger sources of income and abuses the weak.
Can you say Mesa? When are the little guys gonna learn and kick ALPA to the curb?
 
" Because in the end, they are the ones with thier signatures on the LOA."

Ah, yes, but don't forget, ole duane's signature needs to be on the document as well. It one thing for an MEC to approve something, its another for them to sign a document they don't want to sign under duress because of the gun being held to their head by THEIR OWN UNION PRESIDENT.

Do you honestly believe duane would sign something that would hurt his protected babies? uh no, but he will screw over everyone else to protect his highest revenue customers. Its a disgrace.
 

Latest resources

Back
Top