Uncontrolled airport dept question

[brokeflyer]

he'll either say "released" meaning you go now....or "hold for release" and you wait.

from what you said, it sounds like he fcked up and forgot that he released you.

 

[JustaNumber]

...or, perhaps he said and you missed, "EXPECT release 11:23z-11:26z", or he thought he said the expect word but didn't. Although either is unlikely, as I don't believe I've ever heard that phraseology.

I agree with the last guy; most likely he forgot he released you.

 

[ASApuppy]

Something we need to know is the length of time from when he gave you the time window to the time window. I believe this verbage from ATC was intended to be "expect release". Very similar to Ground Cont giving you the same thing. It does not mean you are cleared at that time. I would have called back ready to go at beginning of the window and heard the words "you are released, void in 5 min". Or something similar. If the delay was 20 minutes or so, and you just popped up, yeah, I hear his point. If ATC reports this, I don't know exactly what ASAP will provide you with, since this would no longer be sole-source.

 

[brokeflyer]

they wont say "expect release" just for the purpose of confusion. You are either "released" or "hold for release"

 

[JustaNumber]

Asapuppy,
It doesn't have to be sole-source for you to benefit from ASAP. Here's my understanding of how it works (at ASA at least):

If it is a sole-source incident, if it is accepted into the ASAP program (meaning nothing intentional or criminal), then the absolute worst case scenario is you get an electronic response closing out the matter (which is essentially the same as it never happened).

If it's a non-sole-source incident that's your fault (the FAA gets wind of it some other way), then without ASAP the worst case scenario is you get a violation in your file, possibly accompanied by a suspension or revocation of your certificate. The best case scenario would be a letter of warning in your file.

With ASAP in a non-sole-source incident that's your fault, the best case scenario is an electronic response (it goes away); worst case scenario is you get a warning letter (which is not a violation, and it drops out of your file after two years). So you can see that if there's ANY chance of the FAA finding something out (which is always the case), then you are always better off with ASAP. You can't lose.

(Somebody please correct me if my understanding is flawed).

 

[HoserASA]

From my ATC days, the controller should have used the correct phraselogy "HOLD FOR RELEASE" (Ref. FAA 7110.65 ATC Handbook):

4-3-4. DEPARTURE RESTRICTIONS, CLEARANCE VOID TIMES, HOLD FOR RELEASE, AND RELEASE TIMES
Assign departure restrictions, clearance void times, hold for release, or release times when necessary to separate departures from other traffic or to restrict or regulate the departure flow.
[SIZE=-2]REFERENCE-
FAAO JO 7110.65, Para 10-3-1, Overdue Aircraft.
FAAO JO 7110.65, Para 10-4-1, Traffic Restrictions.
FAAO JO 7110.65, Para 10-4-3, Traffic Resumption.[/SIZE]
a. Clearance Void Times.
1. When issuing clearance void times at airports not served by control towers, provide alternative instructions requiring the pilots to advise ATC of their intentions no later than 30 minutes after the clearance void time if not airborne.
2. The facility delivering a clearance void time to a pilot shall issue a time check.
PHRASEOLOGY-
CLEARANCE VOID IF NOT OFF BY (clearance void time),

and if required,

IF NOT OFF BY (clearance void time), ADVISE (facility) NOT LATER THAN (time) OF INTENTIONS.

TIME (time in hours, minutes, and the nearest quarter minute).
b. Hold For Release (HFR).
1. "Hold for release" instructions shall be used when necessary to inform a pilot or a controller that a departure clearance is not valid until additional instructions are received.
[SIZE=-2]REFERENCE-
P/CG Term- Hold for Release.[/SIZE]
2. When issuing hold for release instructions, include departure delay information.
PHRASEOLOGY-
(Aircraft identification) CLEARED TO (destination) AIRPORT AS FILED, MAINTAIN (altitude),

and if required,

(additional instructions or information).

HOLD FOR RELEASE, EXPECT (time in hours and/or minutes) DEPARTURE DELAY.
3. When conditions allow, release the aircraft as soon as possible.

Sounds like the controller failed to use the correct procedure and/or phraselogy to me.

Hoser
Roll Tide!​

 

[Flyin2low]

Exactly. The 7110 spells out the phraseology to be used. "Expect Release" is not an option. The controller loses.

 

[buscap]

wait for it....

 

[buscap]

wait for it...

 

[buscap]

here it comes.....

 

[buscap]

Mesa Sucks!!!!

 

[buscap]

FI ops check complete

 

[Jar Jar]

Thats a good way to get the ol' post count up

 

[WalterSobchak]

Actually, 7:26pm, but close enough for gov't work.

What's an hour amongst friends right? :beer:

Crap...purely a typo, but I will take that extra hour to have a brew with all my ASA FI.com compadres. Ha!

 

[Limeyflyer]

Sounds like you were correct in your actions, and I think anyone else in here would have departed as well. If they check the tapes they will see you are in the clear.