Rottweiller
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Ugly rumor?
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Who's gonna pick up all of ACA's routes overnight? Even if every regional all banded together to cover the flying (the regionals work together? Haha. They only agree to diasagree over everything!), it wouldn't happen.
I'd say you guys are safe and it's merely a rumor . . . for now. Any rumors of you guys picking up FrontierX in January when Mesa's contract runs out?
-Boo!
I'd say you guys are safe and it's merely a rumor . . . for now. Any rumors of you guys picking up FrontierX in January when Mesa's contract runs out?
-Boo!
Frank Abagnale
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WhiteCloud
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Networ-King
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WhiteCloud
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WhiteCloud
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Rumors are we are either going it alone or with a major backer. Many references are made to independent operations in the 2002 10K, first quarter 2003 10Q, and the webcast. Our COO said that independent operations are less risky than the deal UAL is offering us(Jul 2nd). It's a perfect time to get a great deal on Boeings or Airbuses.
Then again, it could be a negotiating tactic to nudge UAL into a good contract. We should know at the latest by August.
With a good cash position, gate space and market knowledge at IAD, it might be less risky to become a LCC.
Should be interesting
Then again, it could be a negotiating tactic to nudge UAL into a good contract. We should know at the latest by August.
With a good cash position, gate space and market knowledge at IAD, it might be less risky to become a LCC.
Should be interesting
upndsky
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Of all the assets ACA has, the most valuable may be that little piece of paper that says "Operating Certificate" on it. Someone like Virgin's Branson would pay very dearly for it. And with his track record, I don't think he'd have trouble finding a group of Americans to make up the 51% ownership he needs to start an airline here. And if I read the boards right, ACA has retained ownership of the ACJet certificate. Any chance that could be on the block?
My question the is, what would keep management from selling the ACJet certificate, shutting down ACA, selling the assets (planes, gates, etc) to the new owner (ie. Branson), and then taking that money and investing it in the new airline (ie. Virgin USA). Could, and that's a big could, something like this happen, would that void the pilot's contract? IOW, is the contract tied to the operating certificate, the company, something else?
I'm not suggesting that this is a likely or even possible scenario. Unlike some other airlines that will eat their own for sake of the bottom line, ACA management seems to have some integrity. I don't work for ACA or for any other regional, so I don't know the intricacies of how pilot contracts work. This is just me typing out loud. ACA has always been on the top of my list of airlines to work for and I would hate to see it weakened or gone.
Now the idea of ACA being its own branded airline actually sounds good and I don't think it's that far-fetched. If you look at current trends, in 10 or 20 years Delta will be flying feed for Comair and ASA. Whadaya think, General Lee?
My question the is, what would keep management from selling the ACJet certificate, shutting down ACA, selling the assets (planes, gates, etc) to the new owner (ie. Branson), and then taking that money and investing it in the new airline (ie. Virgin USA). Could, and that's a big could, something like this happen, would that void the pilot's contract? IOW, is the contract tied to the operating certificate, the company, something else?
I'm not suggesting that this is a likely or even possible scenario. Unlike some other airlines that will eat their own for sake of the bottom line, ACA management seems to have some integrity. I don't work for ACA or for any other regional, so I don't know the intricacies of how pilot contracts work. This is just me typing out loud. ACA has always been on the top of my list of airlines to work for and I would hate to see it weakened or gone.
Now the idea of ACA being its own branded airline actually sounds good and I don't think it's that far-fetched. If you look at current trends, in 10 or 20 years Delta will be flying feed for Comair and ASA. Whadaya think, General Lee?
The ACjet certificate is a ticking clock. By December 2003 intention for its use must be declared and aircraft must be operating on the certificate by June 2004. It is possible that ACA aircraft will used as feed for Virgin Red on the ACjet certificate.
Inertia
JetBlue will bring EMBs on property and begin serving the smaller markets in the east coast by 2005. Airtran is adding 737s, 717s, and more AWAC CRJs.
Whether Virgin backs ACAI or ACA goes out independently it must be done quickly to capture market share. JetBlue began 3.5 years ago and is up to only 40 aircraft. ACAI has 118 jets, 30 turboprops, and over 1600 active pilots. ACAI could purchase larger aircraft and require Boeing/Airbus to acquire the leases for some or all of the CRJs. I'm sure Mesa would be interested in second hand CRJs.
The pilot group at ACAI could fly 737s and 320s as proficiently as CRJs and FRJs. They could move quickly into the small to medium eastcoast, midwest markets and match JetBlue in large aircraft within two years, without straining the pilot pool.
The question is, does management have the brass ones to attempt it? I hope they try.
ACAI must reinvent middle management, customer support, morale, and stop wasting money. That is what will make or break a run as an independent.
Inertia
JetBlue will bring EMBs on property and begin serving the smaller markets in the east coast by 2005. Airtran is adding 737s, 717s, and more AWAC CRJs.
Whether Virgin backs ACAI or ACA goes out independently it must be done quickly to capture market share. JetBlue began 3.5 years ago and is up to only 40 aircraft. ACAI has 118 jets, 30 turboprops, and over 1600 active pilots. ACAI could purchase larger aircraft and require Boeing/Airbus to acquire the leases for some or all of the CRJs. I'm sure Mesa would be interested in second hand CRJs.
The pilot group at ACAI could fly 737s and 320s as proficiently as CRJs and FRJs. They could move quickly into the small to medium eastcoast, midwest markets and match JetBlue in large aircraft within two years, without straining the pilot pool.
The question is, does management have the brass ones to attempt it? I hope they try.
ACAI must reinvent middle management, customer support, morale, and stop wasting money. That is what will make or break a run as an independent.
General Lee
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Rottweiller
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General Lee said:Virgin Red is going to be owned by who? Can Richard Branson own all or part of a US airline? How much can he own? Who else will go in with him? Which airplanes will they fly? Where will they have a hub? A lot of questions....sorry.
Bye Bye----General Lee
Moore and Branson are long time buddies so ACA have a foot in the door there at least. Branson has had eyes on something in the US for a long time just like he has feeders all over Europe.
Branson could own I believe up to 49% ie non majority holding. However if he is just fronting the cash through some deal then technically 100% as long as he isn't listed as an owner.
JBcrjca
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What a stupid thing to say. Dieterly, of all people, should know that regionals don't 'steal' flying from the mainlines. The flying is handed to them by piss-poor management at the mainlines. True, we all hate to see the majors lose so much flying, but don't blame the regional carriers. Blame the greedy mainline CEOs and middle-managers that don't seem to know how to run an airline.
exphojump said:
One of the reason's 'Blue is so successful is b/c their hub is NYC, the largest city in the US. They have a market of at least 12 million potential customers right there (and their #2 market is LA, the 2nd largest city in the country). It takes about 150 small markets just to equal 'Blue's hubs! You can't just fly willy nilly up and down the east coast with fuel sipping aircraft with TV's in them and expect to compete with Jet Blue. And let's not fail to forget that Southwest, DAL, and US have all made claims on that market too. It's the best market in the country, and ACA will not be allowed to operate in it independently.
Trying to start up there would be suicide. The market is virtually saturated, and it will take a great idea managed by a visionary leader like Herb or Neeleman to succeed. Do you believe Moore is of the same caliber as these two? He better be if ACAI goes it alone, or the trip will be a short one.
DL has the southeast, CO the south, HP the southwest, AS the northwest, NW the north, US the east, and B6, AA, UA, and WN cover the whole spectrum (with DL doing a country cover too). There's only 3 markets open (the northeast, the midwest, and the west coast). All of these markets are covered, but not dominated. Nobody lives in the midwest, nobody takes planes in the NE when they all live within an hour of a big city, which leaves the CA coast as the only viable market on entry. Kinda and odd place for a company called 'Atlantic Coast' with gate ownership in IAD to try to stake a claim, huh? And UA, HP, and AS are already there, though everyone provides some service. Not impossible, but very difficult, for sure.
If I were ACA managment, I'd be praying for Virgins.
-Boo!
Frank Abagnale
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cocknbull
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Didn't some "unnamed airline" buy a bunch of 737s and 767s. I wonder who that was. I can see ACA starting an Airtours/Monarch/Air2000 type of gig. I think ACA and United are close on a deal however I think United is trying to axe ACA to quickly in the deal and that is why there is no agreement yet. ACA needs United flying for a little longer before it will be able to transition into a new model.
wasted state
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skootertrash
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