UAL on U302

[Lifestyle]

TerryHfly,
Before you label me, let me tell you a little about me. I was at a COEX for over 3 years. Talk about no scope clause. Even then while I sat in my Brasiia I would cringe everytime we took a new RJ delivery. Why, because every RJ that came on to COEX property kept me at that regional longer getting paid crap to do the same job everybody else does. Also, if you don't think I have any compassion for regional guys now that I have gone to "Big Brother". I walked the informational picket line in my United Uniform during Air Wisconsins Contract negotiations. I haven't forgotten where I come from, I just think now more than ever that scope clauses need to be honored and regionals need to be stepping stones for something better. I want to see you in an airbus or a 737, not an RJ for the rest of your life. I'm not just looking out for United Pilots flying I'm looking out for the better of everyones career. Once again Legalized B-Scale brother.

OakRBust,
No one is blameing "Little Brother Pilots" as you call them. They can't help how managment runs a business. All we ask for is to show some support in honoring these scope clauses.

 

[spinup]

I hear where y'all are comming from. As Johnny Knoxville once said, "hate the game, not the player." I think it is time to change the game to reflect all pilots best interests.

Here's another one. We have a number of 747-400 (4 I think) parked in the desert. How 'bout a little ANC freight action?

 

[spinup]

Press Release
SOURCE: Continental Express
Continental Express Adds Its 150th Regional Jet to Operating Fleet
HOUSTON, May 17 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- ExpressJet Holdings (NYSE: XJT - News) today announced the addition of the 150th Embraer regional jet to the Continental Express operating fleet, marking another milestone in its aggressive transition to an all-jet fleet by the first quarter of 2003.

With the latest delivery of a 50-seat Embraer ERJ-145, the Continental Express operating fleet now totals 171, including 21 remaining turboprop aircraft. The regional carrier to Continental Airlines (NYSE: CAL - News) has firm orders for 124 Embraer regional jets and is scheduled to take delivery of about four aircraft every month for the next three years

 

[publisher]

few points

ASApuppy

What you heard regarding the financing may or may not be true. It was certainly true in the old days for large aircraft although not as interesting with turbo-props due to the lessors not having the level of interest.

This changed when ILFC started buying aircraft from Boeing and Airbus and not the airline themselves. They figured out the game and decided to play it themselves.

That pretty well killed the practice for big aircraft. It may still be done but leasing companies are really leary of values anymore.

There are going to be a number of issues far beyond pilot cost that are going to impact regional under 100 seat flying. Insurance and security costs could seal off some communities from any service.

Two things are likely. Independant regionals and the continued proliferation of SWA, AirTran, Alaska type carriers.

 

[terryhfly]

Lifestlye,

Thanks for walking our picket line at Air Wisconsin. I feel the same way each new RJ we get the longer I have to stay here. But, with more RJ's the more of a life I can have out side the company. Either way you screw yourself.

Terry

 

[chillidawg]

**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** right

OakRbust, You are absolutely right. It's all about money, money, money. Whatever, why did we get into this profession for anyway? Possibly... THE FLYING??? I say start to enjoy what you do and quit the complaining or get out and do something else. For the furloughloughees I feel for you, I really do. Get buisy living and stop the whining.
The ChilliD

 

[Lifestyle]

Hey ChiiliD,
I take offense. I'm furloughed but have been fortunate to find another job that I'm quite happy with. However, many have not been so fortunate so cut these folks some slack. In addition, it's not about whining it's about being informed and protecting our profession. Were not greyhound, were airline pilots.

 

[EAP]

Yeah, I really don't know where Chillidog is coming from either. Maybe you've been eating too many of those things, eh? Stay away from that garbage, it'll kill ya. Your co-workers will appreciate it too, I bet.

 

[OakRBust]

Maybe I shouldn't speak for Dog but I can all but guarantee that he aint happy that there is anyone on Furlough. That is one F word that just flat out Sucks!!!


EAP... I never accused you of anything Except being a " Major Airline" pilot. I'll be at a bigger airline soon too but I will always be just a pilot.


All my post was trying to say is this.... UAL was on pace to lose over a billion dollars before 9-11. If all the big boy drivers were still making 200+ instead of 300+ they could still eat and nobody would be on Furlough. (I can guarantee not near as many) Who cares what the next guy makes at company C if it is going to put your own company out of business.


Jets at the regional level sucks for all pilots that wish to leave their respective regional airline for the bigger iron/payday. But they aint going away so we better all just get used to it.



That's just my opinion... I could be wrong.

 

[B1900DFO]

OakRBust,

I just have to get this off my chest. I get so sick of pilots complaining about 777/747 captains at majors making 280+ grand a year. The way I see it those are very reasonable rates and those senior captains could make an argument tha they are underpaid for their equipment. I currently fly a Dash 8 where our captains make around $48-$76hour (many pull down 90k+/year w/overtime) and the company has no problem profiting at that rate. On a 37 seat aircraft that equates to $1.60/ per hour per seat for the captain. Now if we use that rate on a 747 then the captain should be making $600/hour plus to match the dash captain on a seat by seat basis. Maybe I'm crazy but I don't find that unreasonable. Also don't forget that the widebody aircraft can sell business and first class tickets for top dollar. The 747 holds 10x more seats and the gross t/o weight of 875,000lbs is more than 20x the dash-8. I think that many regional guys forget how much more cash a 747 generates. Don't cut the profession short just because you don't feel you're worth 300+ a year. Pilot salaries should not be blamed for management's failure to sell seats or just selling them for peanuts.

And as for the "were not baseball players comment" I think you are a bit behind the times. The worst ballplayers out there make 250K+.

 

[OakRBust]

The baseball players thing was tongue and cheek...


Whatever we all think we are worth doesn't really matter if the company is losing billions of dollars. It also doesn't matter whose fault it is either.... The bottom line is the bottom line.

As for the 90K to fly a Dash 8.... Are you guys hiring???

 

[publisher]

B1900

Let's send this anaylsis off to the Harvard Business School for some further study.

Maybe you are overpaid and they are just right. Obviously we should reduce your pay.

I saw where the Southwest MEC said they want an industry leading contract. Why would they want one of those. All those guys are in the toliet.

Southwest is the only one (for the most part) that has it right. Let's see if we can screw them up too. After all, they made a profit and we cannot have that in this industry.

Why don't we take away the union and just see what we can get people to fly the 747 for in a totally free market. Probably less than you say you are making flying the Dash.

 

[B1900DFO]

Publisher,
I never said that I make 90k flying a Dash 8. I merely stated that individuals at my WO regional have made 90K flying the Dash. In fact I flew with a captain that broke 100K two years in a row. I happen to make 30k in the right seat of a Dash 8. I am sure that you understand that this is a cyclical industry and these "industry leading" contracts are not the reason that these companies are losing money. Delta, United, American, etc. have been paying decent wages for many years now and they dominate the industry. Just a couple years ago they were making billions in profit. To blame these current losses on salaries is short sighted. In fact United was losing more on a daily basis than they paid in salary, so if the pilots worked for free then the company would still be in the red.
As for getting rid of unions and seeing what 747 pilots would make in a free economy I hope you're joking. We need unions to protect the profession from individuals like yourself who would have pilots making less than truck drivers while flying a $200million dollar aircraft, entrusted with 400+ lives on a daily basis. I'm sure we could all find embry riddle grads to sit in the right seat of a 777 for fifty cents an hour. Does that mean Delta pilots are overpaid? I don't know where you live but 100k a year isn't that much money anymore.

And here is some more math for you. Lets take a Delta captain making $300 dollars per hour flying a 300 seat aircraft on a 10 hour flight. That is a whopping $10 per ticket that goes to pay the captain's salary on a trans oceanic flight! Now do you really think it is the pilot's salaries that are bringing these airlines to their knees. I wuold be more inclined to point the finger at years of mismanagement.

 

[OakRBust]

Hey Publisher...


your fingers are going to get tired on this one

 

[B1900DFO]

OakRBust,
Please humor me and tell me what is so out of line with my reasoning. If a Southwest captain can make 150K flying a 737 why shouldn't a United captain justifiably make 300K flying an aircraft with 3x the capacity. Help me out because apparently I'm missing something.