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UAL on U302

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First off, nobody said an RJ pilot is by definition any less than anyone else. It sucks to be on furlough, it would be better to have a situation giving us all a more stable future.
 
To clarify the "PAX love them " statement.
I was speaking in reference to the choice PAX had
a few years ago at the regionals. Back then it was
a turbo-prop or nothing. When RJs starting showing
up on their routes, the PAX loved them compared to
the turbo-props.
The problem today is management has turned it around.
They put RJ's on routes that use to have main line A/C
and now PAX are pissed. Just look at LAX-PHX.
No mainline A/C, only Skywest RJs, and they are always
full. Not my idea of how to win back PAX.
 
The price tag on CRJ's:

I've heard this from several sources and believe it's true for the most part.

List price of a 50 seat CRJ is $22M. If your name is DCI and you order 100+ and 400+ options you get them for a cool $15M a copy. Pretty smart huh? Well, it gets better. You then take your near new, slightly used jet and hock it to a leasing company and lease it back from them. Basically, nothing more than the airplane sitting on the ground for a week as the paperwork shuffles. Leasing company pays $20M for the jet, which is $2M less than what they would have paid. Their happy to get a great deal on the plane. So, to sum this up, DAL is making $5M for every CRJ they take delivery of. Now, if you just put that in the bank for the lease payments you now have to make, you get several years of free payments. Why not get them as fast as you can. This was going on pre-9/11 and is continuing today. The only snag from 9/11 was that the primary leasing company was located in the WTC.

As for the PAX love them. While some frequent flyers might enjoy the bigger cabin and meal service, most really like that no matter where they are sitting, it only takes a fraction of the time to offload.
 
When things were good... $$200,000 plus wasn't enough money for all the big brother pilots.

Now regionals shouldn't have rj's cause it is taking away jobs from big brother????

In another year(s), when the economy gets back to normal and everybody gets called back, none of you big brothers will want to fly a little RJ for 110 K or whatever the scale will be.

RJ's are taking some mainline flying and that sucks for all of us who dreamed of making it to a major. I am at a regional with props and jets. I wish that Mainline had all the jets cause that would mean a lot more higher paying jobs for all pilots. The problem is everyone except SWA is losing billions of dollars. What choice have we as pilots left to management. It is really hard to take multi million dollar bonuses when your bottom line is negative 500 million for the first quarter.

Don't blame little brother pilots. Blame our greedy asss selves for needing $354.00/hour to do what you love. Get real guys.... We aren't Baseball players.:D


That's just my opinion... I could be wrong.....
 
...stale rehash...

....and I think you are wrong, at least about all of us "getting real" about pay rates flying airplanes where the walkup fares to some international destinations are over 10 grand a pop. A 747 isn't an RJ, they have economy of scale working for them. Don't cut yourself off at the knees before you get to the front lines and see for yourself how long of a road it is to that elusive payscale, bro.

As far as RJ's go, I have been a major airline pilot (for 2 outfits) since 98. I've felt, before that date certainly, that when my past life regional airline got RJ's while I was a regional pilot, it should have been the mainline getting them . My reasoning was because I wanted more career opportunities at what I judged to be true career operators.

I certainly don't begrudge regionals from having jets though, now that they have plenty of them. It makes for decent career possibilities for some that prefer their situation at specific regionals, and that wasn't as nice an option before.

One of the best captains I've flown with on the 737 (junior captain) considered himself a career RJ captain at a Regional before he got an out of the blue interview and job offer at United. His reasoning was that he was older, had kids, and didn't know if he'd ever really better his standings at a major. Obviously he took the job and it worked out for him in spades. He then upgraded at the first opportunity (3 years) to 737 captain at the Yo and is one of the best I've flown with. So don't accuse me of thinking regional commuter pilots are "underneath" us snobs at mainline companies, plenty of us have come from the ranks, and many have been called "lifers" at the regionals before making the move. I've been there, done that, even sold the tee shirts to others so they can say the same thing. I feel commuter guys are certainly worthy of professional treatment as BE-1900 pilots to RJ pilots.

What this thread is talking about is the U30-2 proposal. It doesn't demean any pilot group. It is a business model that will create growth and opportunity for career jobs. It doesn't force mainline pilots into cockpits of regional airlines flying former mainline routes with RJ's. The real resistance is that it alters the growth at a foundation level, where some of the big union players obviously don't feel comfortable with the concept because it isn't the typical growth mode that buys Boeings, Airbuses and widebodies.
 
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TerryHfly,
Before you label me, let me tell you a little about me. I was at a COEX for over 3 years. Talk about no scope clause. Even then while I sat in my Brasiia I would cringe everytime we took a new RJ delivery. Why, because every RJ that came on to COEX property kept me at that regional longer getting paid crap to do the same job everybody else does. Also, if you don't think I have any compassion for regional guys now that I have gone to "Big Brother". I walked the informational picket line in my United Uniform during Air Wisconsins Contract negotiations. I haven't forgotten where I come from, I just think now more than ever that scope clauses need to be honored and regionals need to be stepping stones for something better. I want to see you in an airbus or a 737, not an RJ for the rest of your life. I'm not just looking out for United Pilots flying I'm looking out for the better of everyones career. Once again Legalized B-Scale brother.

OakRBust,
No one is blameing "Little Brother Pilots" as you call them. They can't help how managment runs a business. All we ask for is to show some support in honoring these scope clauses.
 
I hear where y'all are comming from. As Johnny Knoxville once said, "hate the game, not the player." I think it is time to change the game to reflect all pilots best interests.

Here's another one. We have a number of 747-400 (4 I think) parked in the desert. How 'bout a little ANC freight action?
 
Press Release
SOURCE: Continental Express
Continental Express Adds Its 150th Regional Jet to Operating Fleet
HOUSTON, May 17 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- ExpressJet Holdings (NYSE: XJT - News) today announced the addition of the 150th Embraer regional jet to the Continental Express operating fleet, marking another milestone in its aggressive transition to an all-jet fleet by the first quarter of 2003.

With the latest delivery of a 50-seat Embraer ERJ-145, the Continental Express operating fleet now totals 171, including 21 remaining turboprop aircraft. The regional carrier to Continental Airlines (NYSE: CAL - News) has firm orders for 124 Embraer regional jets and is scheduled to take delivery of about four aircraft every month for the next three years
 
few points

ASApuppy

What you heard regarding the financing may or may not be true. It was certainly true in the old days for large aircraft although not as interesting with turbo-props due to the lessors not having the level of interest.

This changed when ILFC started buying aircraft from Boeing and Airbus and not the airline themselves. They figured out the game and decided to play it themselves.

That pretty well killed the practice for big aircraft. It may still be done but leasing companies are really leary of values anymore.

There are going to be a number of issues far beyond pilot cost that are going to impact regional under 100 seat flying. Insurance and security costs could seal off some communities from any service.

Two things are likely. Independant regionals and the continued proliferation of SWA, AirTran, Alaska type carriers.
 
Lifestlye,

Thanks for walking our picket line at Air Wisconsin. I feel the same way each new RJ we get the longer I have to stay here. But, with more RJ's the more of a life I can have out side the company. Either way you screw yourself.

Terry
 

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