UAL news....We aint dead yet.

[Ski]

Forbes magazine - 03-13-03

Fitch estimated United's pension underfunding at $4.1 billion, followed by American Airlines parent AMR Corp. (nyse: AMR - news - people) at about $3.3 billion, Northwest Airlines Corp. (nasdaq: AMR - news - people) at $3.2 billion and US Airways at $3.0 billion.

You are correct, Delta is underfunded by 4.4 billion.

This is a slope none of us want to go down! ski

 

[JD2003]

As one of UALs bagsmashers I give em a thumbs up. Chapter 11 gives us a competitive advantage which ol Gordo aint got. CAL and others will be hard pressed to eek some greenbacks out of their miserable high cost operations. They will simply keep begging or file.

So get ready...its a comin

 

[Boeingman]

As one of UALs bagsmashers I give em a thumbs up.


Chapter 11 gives us a competitive advantage which ol Gordo aint got.

Now that is funny. If you think bankruptcy and chapter 11 is an advantage you are seriously out of touch with reality. I thank god we don't have this "advantage". The only advantage you are enjoying is a temporary respite and cessation of pre petition debt and lease obligations. If you believe that will continue, unabated and without recourse (with interest), I have a bridge you might be interested in buying.

CAL and others will be hard pressed to eek some greenbacks out of their miserable high cost operations.

High cost? CAL? Miserable? OK, think what you wish.

They will simply keep begging or file.

Well, CAL isn't begging the government to survive on the backs of the taxpayer.

So get ready...its a comin

What is coming is in my opinion chapter 7 for UAL. If this war with Iraq takes place, and I think it will, it will doom UAL. Remember EAL was in the same position and ceased operations 3 days after the first gulf war started. UAL is in much more of a precarious position than they were at the time.

 

[Dennis Miller]

tbkane

It appears that you aren't the only one questioning UAL's position.

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/yho...o&guid={C489F59A-2C97-4555-BA05-34D505C76A2C}

I think this is the story you are trying to link up Cha-Cha:

Analyst questions United cost update

By August Cole, CBS.MarketWatch.com
Last Update: 4:58 PM ET March 13, 2003

CHICAGO (CBS.MW) -- Credit Suisse First Boston on Thursday took issue with United Airlines' creditors update that indicated the bankrupt carrier generated cash flow of $1 million a day in January.

The company's top finance executive, Jake Brace, also said the No. 2 airline carrier is ahead of plan with the terms set by its lenders. A United spokesman confirmed the reported statement on Wednesday.

"While we have seen only the press reports, those figures do not come even close to adding up," wrote CSFB analyst James Higgins in a Thursday research report.

Shares of parent UAL Corp. (UAL: news, chart, profile) ended the session down 3 cents to 88 cents as the sector advanced. See full story.

In that same period, the No. 2 airline disclosed recently in an SEC filing earlier this month that it lost $382.13 million in January with operating revenue of $1.18 billion. Operating expenses for the month totaled $1.51 billion, according to the document.

"Our only surmise is that UAL is not making payments on many items that flow through the income statement. Other than that, we can think of no way that monthly cash flow could have been even close to positive, and of course, such decisions not to pay are unsustainable," he wrote.

Aside from labor costs, fuel costs are a near-term issue for the industry. In United's case, it is not protected from rising fuel prices with fuel hedges, which is common practice in the industry. Aviation gas prices have more than doubled from a year ago to about $1.30 a gallon, according to the latest information from Deutsche Bank.

Those pressures will be influenced almost certainly by Iraq's fate. In that climate, United filed on Tuesday for a 180-day extension to submit its bankruptcy plan as union members and management remain at odds over fundamental differences on how to restructure the carrier.

August Cole is spot news editor at CBS.MarketWatch.com in Chicago

 

[SMMustang]

Yes, that is the link.

I just saw what my airline is offering to remain competitive with the companies that are going under it is rediculous.

It is somewhat ironic. Back in the summer of 2000 UAL pilots were raising the bar for the rest of us to shoot for in the way of a contract. Now, as things turn out, it backfired completely. They drove (not just the pilot contract, but the summer of discontent) themselves to the brink of extintion, if they haven't arived yet by the time I hit the return button that is, and are now setting new lows for the rest of the industry to shoot for. A couple months ago on this board, I read (if I understand correctly) that some people were saying that liquidation by UAL would only hurt pilot negotiations at other airlines. I disagree. 20% less capacity will fix a lot of problems in the industry and the other airlines will be able to raise prices and return to the black. THEN, they will stop griping about how much us pilots are paid. I think UAL78 said a couple months ago something to the fact that he'd fly for peanuts to save his company. Well, if UAL78 is willing to work for peanuts, then you MR ___(DAL, NWA, CAL, AA) will have to work for peanuts too for us to remain competitive with UAL. So in a sick twisted way, the contract that set the standard may have just done that, only in the reverse direction.

 

[Full of LUV]

Management's Claim?

Doesn't it fit nicely into managements claim that the main thing wrong with the industry is labor. Now that they have their concessions, they have even turned UAL around from a 20 million a day loss to a million a day profit.

 

[Mr.Aviation]

REST IN PIECE UAL!! BYE BYE!!

 

[KC-10 Driver]

I am currently on the other side of the world, but heard a hopefully untrue rumor last night.

One of the guys in my squadron here on deployment was told by his dad (a senior management pilot at a major -- albeit not UAL) that sources within the Air Transport Association indicate that UAL will be making a Chap 7 announcement within days.

I know that rumors like this have been abounding for months, and I hope this is not true. But, has anyone in the real world back home heard any inkling of this?

Hoping, for the sake of my many friends at UAL, that this is not true.

 

[delivery100]

Actually, the rumor I seriously heard was that Great Lakes is buying UAL sometime this afternoon and will repaint them accordingly 'Great Lakes Express'.

Im almost positive its true! I heard it from my sister's friend's 3rd cousin's mailman's dog groomers babysitters grandfathers step-son who once met someone at UAL.

 

[delivery100]

Ahh, shucks....

Cancel last post. I can no longer trust my source. Just saw UAL on final at SFO.

 

[CRJ puppy]

Spoke with one of the Director's of the Banker's Investment group out of NYC today. They said that their "scuttle-butt" was that UAL was going chap. 7 by the end of April...

Wish it wasn't so, but with the impending war and the fact that no one at UAL can agree on a course of action, it is looking like reality at this point.

I think I'm seeing writing on the wall....arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

 

[JD2003]

UAL selling Jet-A to Chataqua

Any ideas why UAL is selling Jet-A to Chataqua? Speaking from albeit the limited frame of reference that my baggage pit affords me I find it curious that they are selling jet A to gas up Chataqua's jungle jets.

 

[Ty Webb]

Hell, we buy fuel from Delta at some outstations . . . . .

Who were they buying it from before?

 

[LiveFreeorDie]

REST IN PIECE UAL!! BYE BYE!!

Where are your manners?

 

[VMA214]

"quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Mr.Aviation
REST IN PIECE UAL!! BYE BYE!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Where are your manners?"

Probably the same place he left his spelling book!!

 

[#1 Windmilling]

Let's not forget that the day after the first Gulf War started, Eastern closed its doors for good. I truly hope that UAL will survive simply because it is one of the great AMERICAN franchises. In March of 2000, United seemed to be hitting on all cylinders and anyone who was looking to get hired by a major airline loved the new contract the pilots negotiated. Now UAL management is trying to abrogate those contracts. This is bad for everyone who flies airplanes for a living. A lot will change over the next 48 hours.....god bless our military.....see ya'all in the desert in the very near future...

#1W

 

[Splert]

FO LUV,

According to CSFB analyst, UAL has not made an aircraft payment since the chapter 11 filing. In his words, “this is of course unsustainable”. Add back in aircraft payments and cash flow is in the red again big time.

Good luck to UAL.

Splert…

 

[Singlecoil]

"quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Mr.Aviation
REST IN PIECE UAL!! BYE BYE!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Where are your manners?"

Probably the same place he left his spelling book!!

I believe that was intentional as a double entendre. As in, the company will end up in pieces. I certainly hope not, however, that will be bad for any pilot who earns a paycheck.

 

[Heavy Set]

Rough Ride Ahead...

Either way, UAL pilots are in for a rough ride. Either lose your jobs during a liquidation and fight with 10,000 other pilots for scant jobs, or have pay whittled down and your quality of life diminished through extended flight hours to bolster productivity... That situation is disasterous! I know so many UAL pilots, many of whom are furloughed now, who passed-up job offers at Southwest, UPS, Fedex and even Jetblue in its early stages for that "coveted" UAL position... I guess hindsight really is 20/20. Of course, nobody could have ever predicted 9/11 which broke the camel's back.

Good luck to all... UAL will change for the WORSE no matter what...

 

[duckman]

UAL pilots quiting

Another "I know a guy" thread....but:
Got a friend who is UAL 737 capt. Said he knows about five UAL pilots that have quit (not furloughed, not Mil leave, not early retirement) to take engineering jobs, banking jobs etc. Said that the one thing that made the job worthwhile is pay and work hours (condensed version there) to put up with being gone as much as they are. "That's all changing or gonna change for the worse" he said...they felt it just wasn't worth it anymore, regardless of whether UAL hangs on or not.
My thought...what is normal attrition rate for airline pilots to leave the industry...is this unusual or standard??