UAL Jets4Jobs

[atpcliff]

Hi!

I just read through some of the new UAL TA (posted in the "Majors" section of this website).

It said that if feeder carriers want to fly RJs bigger than 50 seats, they must provide opportunities for furloughed UAL pilots to fly them. It also said the specific details would be negotiated later.

I had heard earlier that AWAC was doing something or thinking about it to help furloughed UAL guys.

So, what do ACA/AWAC/SkyWest think about this JFJ business?

Cliff
GRB

 

[GuppyPuppy]

I think it is a good idea IF the furloughed UAL pilots go to the bottom of the respective company's seniority list. I do not think that this should be an automatic job, just preferential interviews.

UAL did this for Westair when those pilots were furloughed. It also would behoove United to try and keep their furloughed pilots current.

As far as what it would do for the UAX carriers...well, it would give them more flying opportunities.

Any other thoughts?

GP

 

[EOpilot]

In the little that I've read of the TA, all it says is that feeders can fly aircraft of a seating capacity greater than 50, as long as job opportunities are presented to furloughed pilots.

What's the problem? I didn't see any requirement that they fly these new aircraft, just that they get a job offer.

Granted, it did say something like "on terms to be negotiated later", but the TA doesn't bring up skipping seniority.

 

[46Driver]

No problem giving the UAL guys preferential hiring - BUT it is at the bottom of our seniority list - No different then if I got hired at United.
What I am really interested in is if MESA or somebody else bites on the Jets 4 Jobs and gives UAL furloughs Super Seniority in exchange for 70 seaters.

 

[RUhiring?]

Mesa isn't giving the US Airways furloughees any kind of seniority. They are all starting at the bottom. With the exception of 50% going to the left seat. However, even those pilots are starting with bottom seniority.

Therefore, I doubt that they would give any kind of seniority deal to the UAL pilots.

 

[EOpilot]

That's one h*ll of an exception.

Just because they're on the bottom of the list doesn't mean they didn't bypass seniority. After all, they're on the bottom and they're captains.

I seriously doubt anyone would vote for that at ACA.

 

[46Driver]

With the exception of 50% going to the left seat?????????? And thus they are making more than your F.O.'s who are senior, correct??? Thank you MESA..... I know that will never pass at ACA.

 

[C-5 MEM]

This furloughed deal has always been on the table with ACA. But what comes into play is the strings attached which you and I don't know.
Hows things going EOPILOT? Well, I better get ready for bed. Have a mission in the morning.

Terry V.

 

[ACE]

I got one word for all of you. RJDC. Notice this is not happening at Comair.

 

[surplus1]

What I am really interested in is if MESA or somebody else bites on the Jets 4 Jobs and gives UAL furloughs Super Seniority in exchange for 70 seaters.

From that statement it appears that you have missed completely what has already happened.

The following airlines have either been force fed or "bitten" on the USAirways Jets for Jobs protocol: ALG/PDT/PSA, Midway, Mesa, and of course the new alter ego called Republic. To date, the only remaining hold out is TSA.

Acceptance of the "protocol" requires abrogation of existing contracts and acceptance of "super seniority" for the pilots transferring from the "mainline". It has been swalloed hook, line and sinker, by the affected regional pilots.

Credit is due to the CHQ pilots who have refused, so far, to be coerced and are now faced with Republic as a result.

Also, it's not about 70 seaters only. The current Jets for Jobs protocol affects ALL regional jets. Don't forget that.

 

[Mayday911]

The only way that I will accept that J4J thing from United is if that furloughed United guy is sitting to my right and not the other way around!! They hate us when times are good but come crawling to us when times are bad. Things will eventually get better and they will forget about us once again.

Mayday

 

[RUhiring?]

From what I figure, no one has to accept J4J...after all, look at CHQ, they have "just said no."

It seems that simple. Just say no. Then you won't ever have that United furloughed guy sitting anywhere in "your" cockpit.

 

[GuppyPuppy]

The only way that I will accept that J4J thing from United is if that furloughed United guy is sitting to my right and not the other way around!! They hate us when times are good but come crawling to us when times are bad. Things will eventually get better and they will forget about us once again.

Mayday

Please don't lump all of the UA pilots together on this issue. "They hate us....."??? I would say that close to half of the pilots hired by United during the past 10 years have come from the regionals. I would think that these pilots, like myself, understand the issues involving regional flying and are sympathetic to their problems. I would venture to say that they don't "hate" you or your company.

I am furloughed from a major and am happy to have a job flying at a regional. Sure, first year pay is low, but I am thankful that I am still able to fly.

Cheers!

GP

 

[Tug Driver]

didn't american and american eagle have the same sort of deal worked out?

 

[Mayday911]

Yes they do and I personally saw the Sh!t sandwhich that was handed to the Eagles pilots as a whole.

 

[blott]

J4J's and CHQ...

When it was put to a vote the first time, we told them to "pound sand". Managment said "we will support whatever decision the pilot group makes".

Right after we said no, news about Republic surfaced. The union(teamsters) said our contract couldn't protect us, but they(teamsters) are trying their best to stop it.

The company said Republic would be cheaper than CHQ cause they would be paid PSA's rates. The union offered to have two pay rates, PSA rates for the j4j guys, and chq rates for the chq guys(50% split seats j4j and chq). And have everyone under chq's current contract rules. The company said no thanks...(I think they are talking about starting with 32, 145's for republic...also chq said they would give the pilot group a 2% raise if we voted yes to j4j)

We have been working on a new contract for 1.5 years. We voted down the last TA, which was a joke. the company doesn't want to come back to the table to talk. They also don't want to give us any retro pay for the last 1.5 years, which we figured is over $4 million the company has saved by stalling with contract talks. They have been holding this whole j4j deal in front of us as bait. etc, etc, etc...

Now...

The union put out a revised j4j deal up for vote a few days ago, which the union strongly supported. The revised j4j is better than the first deal, but still isn't good. Their view is basically this. You have to take a bullet, shoot yourself in the foot? or in the head?

We are trying to stop Republic. If this passes, Alpa said they would support us. They would send their guys to chq instead of Republic. ( we shall see ). There are also a few other good points if this passes, along with some bad. I'm tired of typing, so I'll stop for now.

(on a side note, about the over 50 seat deal, the j4j contract specifically states CRJ's and not EMB's, which the chq teamsters are trying to change the language in the contracts...)

(also, we had a non-formal informational picket outside IND (CHQ's office base) this past weekend. Trying to stop Republic. We could use all of your support, If you see us outside-walking the line in the future, please join in if you have the time, at least say "hello").

B

 

[Brother Francis]

March 28, 2003

Jet for Jobs Ballot Ratification Results



In accordance with IBT Local 747 by-laws, the undersigned hereby certifies the results of the Chautauqua “Immediate Small Jet Agreement” ratification vote as set forth below:

VOTES TO ACCEPT LOA 323

VOTES TO REJECT LOA 33

VOID BALLOTS 35

TOTAL BALLOTS 391

Fraternally yours,

E.E. Sowell

Secretary/Treasurer

 

[nfkealey]

Inform a newbie...

What does this mean for the 40+ per month new hires at CHQ?

 

[CHQ Pilot]

I think a note should be made that the J4Js agreement sent to the pilots at CHQ was not approved by CHQ, U, or ALPA. It was developed with much different terms. In the new J4J proposal, U pilots will not be pay protected at first year Captain rates. 50% of the new vancancies created by J4Js will be U pilots and those vacancies will be split between Captain and FO. U pilots would not get super seniority. They would go at the bottom of the list, meaning although they may be a Captain, they would be bidding at the bottom. The U pilots are only furloughed protected if any reduction in force is not on the U side. If a U pilot bids off the U system at CHQ they are no longer protected by any of the provisions.

The new J4Js proposal was solely offered to stop the formation of Republic. What the Company offered the Pilots in exchange for stopping Republic was accept J4Js, agree to the last TA that we voted down by 95% and have no retro pay. The Union proposed the new agreement in order to attempt to stop Republic without having it tied into a new TA. We did not want to give up our barganning rights to stop Republic. We feel that scope and better language can be put in the next contract without having to accept substandard wages and work rules. I do not feel we are caving into J4Js; nobody likes it. The Union hates it and the pilots hate it, but the idea of having Republic hang over our heads during negotiations and watching our power to get a fair contract go down the tubes became a bigger threat.

 

[Brother Francis]

It's LOA 83, as written.

http://www.afausairways.org/Restructure/alpa_ta2.htm