UAL furloughs

[eaglefly]

It is being reported that UAL 's reorganization will only require about 6,000 pilots. That would mean about 3500 furloughs.

What DOH is the 6000 mark at ?

 

[GuppyPuppy]

Around December 1995.

Beers!

GP

 

[eaglefly]

Jeeeezzzz.

Maybe someone (or something) was looking out for me in the summer of '97 ?

It is being said that of the 6000 left, 2000 will be the "b-scale" pilots making even less than the already butchered mainline.

AA and Delta seem to be next.

What's the point of striving to be hired by a major airline anymore ?

The security of the military is looking better now.

 

[boeingdriver213]

I wouldn't be a bit suprised if American isn't the next airline to dump pilots big time, after UAL. Makes finding a job in this industry truly exciting!

 

[P3-Adub]

6000 left ?

Where are you getting this ? Is this the 25% less pilots that was mentioned ? Sure hope that it is 25% less than pre-9/11 level of over 10,500 pilots ???

Our MEC's latest letter states that ALPA does not plan to roll over and play dead on this. It is obvious there needs to be changes however someone has been watching too many Disney Movies about fairy tales if mgmt thinks they can go as deep as they are talking about in all areas. At this rate the professional pilot career will be pretty pathetic !

The hits just keep on coming !

 

[banned username 2]

Re: 6000 left ?

Where are you getting this ? Is this the 25% less pilots that was mentioned ? Sure hope that it is 25% less than pre-9/11 level of over 10,500 pilots ???

Here ya go...

Report: United plans 25 percent fewer pilots, flight attendants
Associated Press

CHICAGO - United Airlines intends to reduce the number of its pilots and flight attendants by up to 25 percent and implement a two-tier pay structure under the new business plan it has devised in bankruptcy, a published report said Wednesday.

The Chicago Tribune, citing unidentified sources, reported that pilots and flight attendants working for a planned new discount carrier to be operated by the airline would be paid significantly less than those on regular United flights.

United declined comment on the report.

The world's second-largest airline, which has posted heavy losses since mid-2000, filed for Chapter 11 federal bankruptcy protection on Dec. 9. It is required to compile a new business plan in the first 120 days of bankruptcy to show its lenders how it intends to return to profitability.

A key to United's financial strategy is a planned $2.4 billion reduction in annual labor costs, which the carrier outlined last month in bankruptcy court. CEO Glenn Tilton also said last month that United plans to launch a low-cost carrier to compete with Southwest Airlines as part of efforts to regain its financial footing.

United spokesman Joe Hopkins said Tilton is presenting the plan to the board of directors of United's parent, UAL Corp., on Thursday. He said specifics were given Monday to financial advisers of United's creditors committee, which is monitoring the bankruptcy reorganization and includes its three major unions, but not detailed in full to employees yet.

"Our plan is to share the information with our employees before we share them with wider audiences," Hopkins said.

Spokesmen for the pilots, flight attendants and machinists said Wednesday they had not been briefed on specifics of the plan.

United has laid off 20,000 workers since the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks and currently has about 78,000 employees, including nearly 20,000 flight attendants and about 8,500 pilots.

According to the Tribune, it would need only about 6,000 pilots under the reorganization plan, and they would be required to increase their flight time to an average of 50 hours a month, up from the current 36 hours.

The report also said United's plan calls for contracting more of its regional routes to its commuter partners - Atlantic Coast Airlines, Air Wisconsin and SkyWest Airlines - which operate planes bearing the United Express logo and would be permitted to fly larger, 70-seat jets. And the report said United likely will close its Indianapolis maintenance center.

United is seeking concessions from its unions after a bankruptcy judge approved temporary wage reductions of 29 percent for pilots, 9 percent for flight attendants and 14 percent for machinists, who include mechanics, ramp workers and customer contact workers.

The company reports fourth-quarter and full-year results on Friday and is expected to exceed the $2.1 billion loss of 2001 - an industry record that has since been exceeded by American Airlines.

UAL shares fell 7 cents to $1.08 in afternoon trading on the New York Stock Exchange.

 

[LASvegas777]

At this rate of major airline stability not looking so great our retiremnet plan might be better invested if we start saving all major airline memorobillia (UAL,USAir,DAL,AA,NWA,CAL) and sell it on ebay in ten years!!!! Anyone seen how much an old Pan Am or Eastern timetable schedule sells for on ebay today?? Hoping for better days soon!!!!!!!!

 

[LASvegas777]

And not to mention by taking that extra unused roll of toilet paper from the overnight hotel along with the soap/shampoo that action results in instant reitirement returns which is alot better than our company funded plans....

 

[Boeingman]

The continued implosion

Didn't they already try the shuttle thing and had their asses handed to them?

The struggle at United


By John Schmeltzer
Tribune staff reporter
Published January 29, 2003

United Airlines plans to thin its pilot and flight attendant ranks by up to 25 percent and propose a two-tier pay structure in a bid to cut costs and emerge from bankruptcy as a tougher competitor, sources said.

As part of the plan, United likely will close its Indianapolis maintenance center, which it opened in the early 1990s at a cost of millions of dollars. United already has closed its Boeing 757 repair line there and can move its Boeing 737 repair line to San Francisco, sources said.

United officials, who began discussing financial aspects of the plan with union members last week, declined to detail specific points. Tilton, however, is expected to begin a series of meetings with employees Monday to discuss the recovery plan.

Spokesmen for United's three largest unions declined to comment. They said they have not been briefed on the plan.

Already, however, wages at the airline have been slashed. Pilots agreed to a 29 percent temporary pay cut, and the flight attendants accepted cuts of up to 9 percent. The judge overseeing United's bankruptcy case imposed a temporary 13 percent cut on the airline's mechanics, ramp workers and customer service and gate agents.

Wages of white-collar workers have been cut by up to 11 percent.

Joe Leonard, chairman and CEO of AirTran Airways, one of the nation's few profitable airlines, told Wall Street analysts that he would anticipate benefits from United's problems.

"At the best of circumstances, United is going to be a smaller carrier than they are today, and at the worst will be a much smaller carrier than they are," Leonard said.

He predicted the new discount carrier United is planning will meet the same fate as the airline's shuttle.

"This is a low-fare, high-cost airline that is doomed for failure," he said

 

[B-J-J Fighter]

Glad I decided to bail on civil aviation before I had too much time invested and while I am still young enough to fly in the mil. It looks pretty bad for civilian pilots right now. Im going into the mil with every intention of doing 20.

 

[SFR]

It is bad, but I would not give up on a dream of piloting just because of the state of the industry. I am at ASA right now and would like to fly for a major soon/eventually.....whenever it will happen. There are jobs out there right now, maybe not at majors, but then again the big boys of today may be the runts of tomorrow. The military is a big commitment, so don't jump into something too fast.

 

[B-J-J Fighter]

Its a little to late for me to back out on the mil since I already have a contract. I have always wanted to be a mil aviator from day 1, just got a little side tracked after getting married and such. Im now back on the right course full speed ahead.

 

[abxaviator]

BJJ- Since you stated you were headed to "OCS" I assume you are entering the Navy. As a former Naval Aviator, I can assure you that you will have a great time flying what ever the Navy assigns you and you will definitely go places you might not otherwise go.

On the other hand, if flying is your passion, the Navy is not the ideal place. You are first and above all else a Naval Officer (office manager) and the Navy only lets you fly in your spare time. I was a Maintenance Division Officer in my "ground assignment" overseeing 200 junior officers and enlisted personnel. This entails lots of paperpushing and babysitting. When not on deployment, there would occassionally be a month in which I would not fly at all. I left after my first sea tour with just 1500 hours in six years (and that was high compared to my peers). Had I stayed in, my next assignment would have been a shore tour (NO FLYING) followed by the disassociated sea tour (again, NO FLYING) and then a Dept. Head tour (some flying). I won't even go into all the office politics you will have to deal with.

As for your new family, I hope she is VERY independent as 6-10 month deployments tend to be extremely rough for the dependents at home, especially when a deployment is prolonged at the last minute as just happened to the USS Lincoln, just days away from homeport and they got turned around and sent back to the Gulf.

Also, keep in mind that full retirement is, I believe now 30 years of service. If you want to stay in, more power to you, the Navy can provide a satisfying and rewarding carreer, just understand that you will not be there to be only a pilot.

 

[RedBelly]

In the spring of 1997 I had job offers from UAL and Southwest. At the time, just about everyone I knew thought I was crazy to turn down UAL. You just never know.

 

[Huck]

Everybody take a deep breath. When I got into corporate in 1991, everyone told me I was an idiot to get into this business. I met an ex-F-4 pilot who had to drive a courier truck for 6 months, just to get a slot hauling checks in an Aerostar. There were over a hundred ex-EAL pilots who lived in BHM with me. I watched guys come in and undercut fellow pilots - hey why are you paying your King Aire pilot $35k - I'll do it for $30k!

Then I went to ASA - and the upgrade time on the Brasilia was 5 years. ATR was taking 10 -12 years. Delta had 500 on the street, nobody else (but SWA) was hiring, and fractionals hadn't been invented yet.

My point is - I was told I was an idiot for probably 6 years, but the whole time I just kept my head down and kept plugging. I free-lanced, worked a second (and third) job, kept my CFI up, mailed about 10 resumes a month. Eventually it worked out and I rode the wave. Don't give up, guys. Just hunker down for awhile.

 

[Fast Eddie]

If ever there was a time for ALPA national and the UAL MEC to demonstate some
leadership and innovation it is now!! It looks like a whole lot
of United assets are about to be pillaged and probably at a huge
discount to market. I realize that the last ESOP went badly but
the pilots may want to explore another shot at this and get it
right this time. This approach may be the only way to control their
destiny. Any form of job action,(slow-down, sickouts etc could push company off the "cliff" into chapter 7. This is not just about
United what we are seeing is an attempt by Corporate America
to devalue the Pilot profession on a wholesale basis. Delta
and American are next. Time is of the essence with a 120 day
window of opportunity winding down.

 

[Publishers]

news

Big news--

Corporate America is not trying to devalue the pilot profession. That would imply that they care about it at all which they do not. I am not sure that they should.

To think that any of this has much to do with the profession or anything like what was said just adds to how far off the profession is from the business they work in. It also reflects an elevated opinion of the role they serve in the business.

 

[GVFlyer]

Glad I decided to bail on civil aviation before I had too much time invested and while I am still young enough to fly in the mil. It looks pretty bad for civilian pilots right now. Im going into the mil with every intention of doing 20.

Best of luck to you and your family. You will find the life of a Naval Aviator to be challenging, interesting and rewarding. Your training will be second to none and the flying you will do cannot be duplicated anywhere else - especially coming aboard the boat.

GV

 

[stb]

You forgot about...

And not to mention by taking that extra unused roll of toilet paper from the overnight hotel along with the soap/shampoo that action results in instant reitirement returns which is alot better than our company funded plans....

the lightbulbs and batteries for the TV remote control.

I have more than once had these items missing in my hotelroom.

 

[750driver]

Re: Re: 6000 left ?

Originally posted by Falcon Capt United has laid off 20,000 workers since the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks and currently has about 78,000 employees, including nearly 20,000 flight attendants and about 8,500 pilots.

According to the Tribune, it would need only about 6,000 pilots under the reorganization plan, and they would be required to increase their flight time to an average of 50 hours a month, up from the current 36 hours.

Does anyone at United know how far back a 2500 pilot cut would reach? I'm referring to date of hire.