UAL furloughees

[P3-Adub]

Clarify the "BYPASS" please anyone. As I understand it, we can bypass up to two years when recalled (with a letter from your employer) however there is a clause when the last pilot out has been offered their job back, then the bypass becomes what ????? Can UAL shorten the length of the bypass at that point ? And in what order ?


I would like the entire 2 years just to see how United's health holds up.

Any idea of how many mil leaves are out there and how many will come back after BK ?

 

[Chappysan]

Yikes! My understanding is that you can go on an LOA if you provide your local flight office (LAXFO, whatever) a contract binding you for the two years, but you need to have that in place before you are recalled. Then, when they get to your name on the list, you are automatically cycled to LOA status, and come off your LOA like you would normally. The Bypass provision, as I read it, is different and has only to do with if you are on furlough and get offerred recall, you can chose to defer, at which point it continues down the list, and, as it has been explained to me, it will be offerred in seniority order down through the list until reaching the last guy, they will then turn around and move up the list from the bottom, and at that point you must either choose recall or resign.
This was the way the letter/LOA thing was explained to me, so if that is your intent I would make sure to contact a flight office or Todd Coomans (sp?) to ensure that ducks are lined up if you want the full two years, because it was specifically told to me that the LOA had to be in place before recall, for what it's worth.

 

[AdlerDriver]

................Anyway, I'm going to hedge my bets and guess that, minus any terrorism, etc., all 1,800 or so will be offerred recall by mid-2007-that doesn't mean physcially in the puzzle palace, just an offer that many will bypass.

I've been furloughed from UAL since Aug 03. I certainly hope that most of the ~1800 have moved on with their lives and are not "pining" away waiting for good 'ole United to call them back. A little self-respect please. Yippee - another chance to jump onto the "balance beam" and see if they can make it to the end (?what retirement?) before someone starts pushing them off again. You couldn't pay me contract 2000 wages to go back there now. I'm looking forward to telling them to "pound sand" when they call me back. Good luck to those who accept.

 

[turbodriver]

Nice post Do-boy. Go get a life....

Do-boy is right. Do your homework kiddie.

 

[dispatchguy]

I was just talking to a good friend of mine recently (DEN 733 FO), 11/99 DOH, now a USAFR C-17 AC, lives near SEA. He's putting in apps at FDX and SWA.

He never expects to wear a UAL uniform again, and actually, he expects UAL to be the next TWA, in and out of BK several times, until they finally go Ch 7.

BTW, I think he heads back to the sandbox for a 2 week rotation tomorrow...

 

[AdlerDriver]

....
He never expects to wear a UAL uniform again, and actually, he expects UAL to be the next TWA, in and out of BK several times, until they finally go Ch 7.

Agree 100%.

 

[pilotyip]

here comes the June 2007 hiring boom, more signs

 

[Chappysan]

"A little self-respect"? "Pining" away? Didn't like the Contract 2000 rates? I guess you're trying to jab away for some response. Whatever, dude. I'll go back if everything's status quo b/c it's still a better job than the one I've got now. Congrats on FedEx. Life is nice when you have options.

 

[bluefin]

If I could get an interview with Fed, Ups, or SWA and get hired and then have "options" then I wouldn't be wishing that things would turn around. Consider yourself lucky to have, "OPTIONS".

 

[AdlerDriver]

"A little self-respect"? "Pining" away? Didn't like the Contract 2000 rates? I guess you're trying to jab away for some response. Whatever, dude. I'll go back if everything's status quo b/c it's still a better job than the one I've got now. Congrats on FedEx. Life is nice when you have options.

I guess I did sound a little harsh. I'm not jabbing. I am just pi$$ed that the industry has turned into what it is. It's a shame that someone has put their life on hold for 2+ years and then has to go back to UAL with no guarantee that the same thing won't happen again a year later. Most pilots are talented, resourceful people and could easily do better than the current job at UAL. It may not be flying but they'd probably be happier.
I certainly did like contract 2000 rates. $140/hour in the right seat of the 757 was great. All I'm saying is, to me that's not worth going back to if I have to worry about my job from week to week. I consider myself very lucky to have options in the flying profession. I (and everyone else) also have options that don't involve flying. I know plenty of furloughees that have found better jobs than UAL, started their own businesses and are WAYYY more happy than they would be with 10 days off/month working for peanuts.

 

[EAP]

Personally I would love to see UAL (and every single other legacy carrier) thrive if only to cram some crow down a few people's throats. I love the "legacy" that the once full service carriers have, and the accomplishments thay have made over the years. How many families put their kids through college on UAL wages - not just pilots, but mechanics, res agents, etc? All on one income? It's too bad so many would love to see the airline business resemble GreyHound these days. It's now a crime if you can make a living in this industry. Never mind that manicurists, hair stylists, vaccuum cleaner salesman and junior managers in other industries are now surpassing many LCC captain wages. They apparently deserve what salary they command, right?

Oh well, just lamenting the direction of the business in general. I suppose blacksmith's must have complained just as badly during the industrial revolution.

 

[Chappysan]

Adler,
As is so often the case on these boards, with a little explanation from both of us, all I can do is agree with you. Finding yourself on the street is absolutely the worst experience in this industry, and I am hoping that I never have to go throw it again. Unfortunately, even with the bitch slap smackdown of management over the past two years, I look over at it from my current contract job in Asia and it still looks like a better deal. Until I can properly break into the porn industry, it looks like I'll continue to be stuck with outside events continuing to dictate my future and making as few QOL trade-offs as possible, which is a crappy way to go through life. I meant the congrats on the FedEx job, cargo seems to be far more insulated from external shocks, although don't tell that to some pinhead major airline management team that shut down their cargo operation to buy bizjets and shut down that operation, etc., etc., etc. It's good to see FedEx now hiring the best guys out there rather than being concerned about furloughees' non-existent desire to return to a dysfunctional mother ship.

Tailwinds,

Chappysan

 

[AdlerDriver]

Chappy,

I certainly hope UAL flourishes and your return results in a successful career. I know there are “gigs” out there that still make UAL look good. What makes me mad is this: With all the normal dues a pilot must pay (CFI duties, 10+ leg days as a commuter pilot for Mickey-D wages, military service, etc), I guess a professional pilot has to accept a career of risk and uncertainty. Now that we know the score, I guess we have no one to blame but ourselves if we choose to stay. Some don’t have a choice based on their personal situations; others just have an insane love of flying. Either way, we’re hooked. What is going to draw young, talented people with a choice to this profession? What’s going to make a military pilot choose to bring his skills to the private sector? I know I couldn’t recommend it with a clear conscience to someone searching for his or her career path.

The traveling public wants to fly cross-country for bus fare. Sooner or later, they’ll get the pilot they’re paying for.

Tailwinds,

A.D.

 

[EAP]

Chappy,

....What is going to draw young, talented people with a choice to this profession? What’s going to make a military pilot choose to bring his skills to the private sector? I know I couldn’t recommend it with a clear conscience to someone searching for his or her career path.

The traveling public wants to fly cross-country for bus fare. Sooner or later, they’ll get the pilot they’re paying for.....
A.D.

I couldn't have said this better if I had 1000 words to do it in. I've been saying this, with not a bit of excitement about the implications, for quite a while now. It's a damn shame too. I can hear the county music song now, in fifteen years... "Mamas... don't let your babies grow up to be pi-lots.... an' don't you think you can get... - on onah those jets... - and live to tell about it..... (Dueling banjos, etc..)

 

[Huggyu2]

Can I assume that many of you feel that the Very Light Jets (VLJ) have a great potential over the next decade or two?

 

[EAP]

I wouldn't assume anything in this business these days. Especially anything about the future I'm usually the last to find out anyhow.

 

[AdlerDriver]

Can I assume that many of you feel that the Very Light Jets (VLJ) have a great potential over the next decade or two?

I'm not ashamed to admit I have no idea what a VLJ is. Request more info, please.

 

[Huggyu2]

They're jets like the Eclipse that carry 6-10 pax, and can operate relatively cheaply. They are fairly fast, and cana land on small runways, thus reducing the total travel time to smaller destinations. A number of companies are planning on starting "air taxi" type of operations with them.

 

[semperfido]

I'm not ashamed to admit I have no idea what a VLJ is. Request more info, please.

small light weight biz jets that carry a few people up to about 1,000NM. small engines (ex: williams), very aerodynamic, computer designed, lots of composites, integrated avionics and cheap. er i mean inexpensive

 

[P3-Adub]

VLJs the next threat ?

Don't think so. Who's gonna fly them and for how much ? I believe the insurance will be the limiting factor. Same liability as a larger plane. Too much in aviation drives the cost in addition to the aircraft aquisition cost. The people that believe the VLJs are going to be the next big thing have overlooked the turboprops and Citation 500 series planes, they have not revolutionized air travel and niether will these planes. Don't have to worry about the Greyhound bus crowd that is currently making up the majority of pax on the airlines these days, they will still not be dropping a premium to travel this way. That and the perception of how small that dang thing is, people think an RJ is small !

How about the other VLJ or should I say RJ ???? Already seeing overcrowded airports and airspace where the RJs are driving up the number of operations. Not just talking about O Hare and Lagarbage either. My prediction is the larger planes will have to carry the load, ie 150-200 pax = 1 operation vs the 4 operations required with an RJ. How much of mainline flying is being done by this type of plane ? A lot. Too much. The trend will reverse itself.