UAL Economic Recovery Plan

[BigLar22]

From UAL -MEC...

"Last Thursday, April 25, UAL-MEC Captain Paul Whiteford met with senior management at the request of UAL CEO Jack Creighton to kick off discussions regarding a plan of economic recovery for United Airlines. Captain Whiteford informed Mr. Creighton that, in addition to discussions regarding any economic relief, certain issues would have to be resolved to the satisfaction of the UAL-MEC. These issues include, but are not limited to, scope, outstanding grievances, and continued contractual abrogations.

Captain Whiteford stated, “The Company has approached ALPA and made a case that an economic recovery plan may be necessary for the corporation. The pilots are willing to enter discussions to determine United’s needs in order to protect the viability of the airline and thus protect the careers of the United Airlines pilots. However, as I have stated repeatedly, the United pilots will consider participating in an economic recovery plan only if there is equitable participation from stakeholders, management, employee groups, and vendors.”

Captain Whiteford emphasized that any proposed plan would be contingent on approval of the UAL-MEC. If accepted by the MEC, any proposal must then be ratified by the United ALPA membership."

I would like to hear some discussion (from both non-furloughed and furloughed ALPA members) as to whether the union should vote for a "recovery plan" without a stipulation with regard to recalling all furloughed pilots. It is my understanding that one of the purposes of union is to look out for the well being of all pilots(probationary or not). I would hope that the MEC would make its priority getting all pilots back on the payroll while preserving the airline and all of it's employees.

I doubt that if the 9000+ remaining pilots agree to concessions it would kill the company to recall those making the lower salaries.


Thanks for your constructive comments

 

[wafu39]

I agree with you. Did all the UAL pilots out there see the pilot proposal that is being floated around regarding U30-2 ?

What I would really like to see in return for concessions is an agreement to give furloughed (all) pilots pay longevity when they return to work. I think that Delta has this in their contract, but I guess we never thought that UAL would furlough. It would certainly be nice to return to a level of pay that would allow a pilot to pay off the debt that many are accruing while on furlough.

Its going to take more than pay concessions to fix the problem. We need new ideas and the U30-2 plan looks good to me. I heard that is is going to be voted on at the LEC level.

 

[F/O]

U30-2

No, haven't heard anything about it but how does it differ from the original shuttle?

Another thing to consider is if it costs the company anything to implement it, i.e. training costs, they probably wont go for it. The latest I heard was they aren't spending a penny on anything that is not absolutely critical to running the operation right now.

 

[TRBojet]

Shuttle, too?

There was a mass email sent out by a furloughed UAL pilot about the U30-2. Supposedly, it would be a "seperate" operation from mainline (as the original U30 was), but be staffed with both voluntary active employees as well as furloughed employess (ie. pilots) and it would fly the remaining 737s along with new 70 and 100 seats RJs. All the employees would be on the United seniority list. They said it would be operated like other low-cost carriers (ie. Southwest, Frontier..) as far as pay, work rules, scheduling, etc. Sounds like Shuttle #1 except for the smaller airplanes. I, for one, would be in full support of such a venture as it would get all our furloughed brotherens back. Additionally, all the mainline 737s that got scheduled into the new Shuttle would be replaced with additional new aircraft (Airbus, presumably) so that the # of mainline aircraft would not be decreased. Sounds like a great idea if HQ would approve the initial funding. If you didn't receive the original announcement, email or PM me about the source of the email.

Tom

 

[UALU30]

It's like I've got to post on this one.

F/O:

If you don't have access to the UAL Compuserve ALPA forum, send me a message and I'll contact the Sysop to get you on board. Very good info over there on everything, including U30-2. Not to mention we have 24 fully paid for -200s in the desert to start the operation.

Frats

 

[Boz]

U30-2 is a brilliant plan, I am very pleased to see that UAL pilots are the brains behind this great idea. Lets just hope it recieves the attention it deserves from management. U30-2 is better than anything that Management and ALPA has come up with.

I just hope that UAL will gather quickly to discuss this plan and take the neccessary steps forward to making it a reality.

 

[HvyjetFO]

call your Reps!

U30-2 is a great idea. It focuses on how to generate new revenue for UAL while solving the problem of illegal furloughs and use of RJs. We need to show support of this. It is my understanding that the MEC has not shown much support for this idea, so we need to let as many people know what a great idea this is.

Here's hoping.
Hvy

 

[ABfly17s]

UAL Recovery Plan

wafu39:

Sect 7-E: Recall from furlough, states:

A pilot furloughed due to reduction in force who returns to duty as provided in Par. 7-D of this Section shall be allowed, for seniority purposes, all time accrued prior to such furlough as well as all time within the period of furlough.

I read this as we will get paid for the time we are on furlough, seeing as our pay is linked to seniority. Is this not true?

 

[wafu39]

PAY LONGEVITY

ABfly17s

I was told by a capt. before being furloughed that we only acrue seniority towards retirement while on furlough and not pay. I hope he was wrong!

Does anyone have the definitive answer?

 

[F/O]

It is correct that when you are recalled you will go back to the pay rate for the same year you were on when you got furloughed. In other words, the time with the company you accrue on furlough does NOT apply to the yearly pay rates.

 

[Guppydriver]

Guys,

Section 3A-1 states that pay is based on longevity not seniority.
Section 3A-2 states that a pilot will not accrue longevity while on furlough.

Let's hope part of the upcoming negotiations focuses on getting us longevity while we are on the street.

Guppy

 

[publisher]

Salvation

The salvation of this carrier is at stake here and needs substantial reduction and changes in pay structure at all levels and jobs across the board.

If every employee group uses granting those reductions to impose some other long lost issue on the company, there may not be a company to come back to.

This is not the reopening of full negotiations but strickly we are not making it at this rate, what is a fair an equitable give back.

 

[EAP]

Fair and equitable givebacks...

Now, now. Don't just regergitate the same old deadhorse line. Getting huge concessions as a definitive solution only put a fresh bandage dressing on an infected, festering wound. Yup, some sort of concessions will have to be made, but it doesn't end or start there. It's gonna require a more creative approach than that.

It starts at decisive management with excellent leadership, something that has been sorely missed lately. Surely, it will take a dedicated employee group to allow leadership to lead. I hope we are up to the task. Frankly, I've worked at more creative and synergistic places, but I think most UAL employees have far more than enough skills, brains and motivation to come together for a well lead plan. I think U30 part deu could be a very creative and innovative part of an overall recovery. I'm ready to kick some butt and be a part of a winning team again.

 

[wafu39]

hey publisher,
I think you just dont get it !
you do not turn a company around just by reducing employee payroll.
You do it by improving service and increasing revenue.
If you take the cost of the USAir deal and Avolar, how many pilot salaries do you think that would cover?

I don't think you are speaking from the same experience as the rest of us.

 

[furloughed]

<<I don't think you are speaking from the same experience as the rest of us.>>
Publisher does not speak from the same experience of the rest of us. He speaks from the perspective of being a business owner. Publisher why would any employee at UAL want to give money back to a management which has so throughly ruined our airline over the past two years. If a good inovative management team is put in place with a clear vision that is stated to the employees then you would see cooperation. Until then forget it. Its the management stupid. Here is some good reading I have pulled off another site in case there is any doubt.

>>The latest issue of Barons Business weekly magazine has the ratings of 500 USA companies MANAGEMENT TEAMS,not p/e,stock ratings,divedends,but the scores of the ablities of these companies managers to effectively run a major corporation based upon much research.UAL scored all "F"s and one "D" in all areas(5 total areas) and was rated #494 out of 500 management teams.So are we stupid enough AGAIN to GIVE away our hard earned cash to only see it wasted AGAIN. We simply have almost all the idiots still in place here,and one new CEO who voted for the USAir deal,has ZERO airline experience,relies upon Dutta for plans, and has retained all but 2 guys(they left with parachutes) who got us into bad past business decisions (Wall Street is aware of this fact)and endless amounts of cash from us will make zero positive changes except to ratchet down ALL pilot incomes in the USA once again.And these people have stated many times"give us the cash and we will come up with a plan"!Kind of like buying a house but the realtor wont allow you to know where it will be located,what the mortgage rate will be,etc,etc,same old bs as the RJ versus Wide body vote!What a bunch of liars we have running this airline!!!Past performance repeated often IS a good indicator of whats to come... >>

<<Re:>>"UAL scored all "F"s and one "D" in all areas(5 total areas) and was rated #494 out of 500 management teams."<<

It appears that Dutta's profound lack of commitment to making UAL the number one airline in the industry, as heard by me and a roomfull of other pilots 16 months ago at WHQ, was a self prophecy and has now in fact been realized.

When I heard Dutta announce that being the number one airline simply cost too much money to achieve and maintain, it was repulsive to me back then and is exponentially more repugnant today. I would argue that his fondness for mediocrity has done far more damage to our public relations not to mention undermining the work we do on the line each day.

They just refuse to get it.>>