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UAL and CAL

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GogglesPisano

Pawn, in game of life
Joined
Oct 20, 2003
Posts
3,939
[FONT=verdana, arial, helvetica]Continental chief touts United combo
No talks in works; United sees industry `benefit' in mergers

Bloomberg News
Published December 9, 2005


NEW YORK -- The flight networks of Continental Airlines and United Airlines would make a "knock-em-dead combination" if the carriers were to merge, Continental Chief Financial Officer Jeff Misner said.

Continental prefers to stay independent, Misner said, and a United spokeswoman said it hasn't made any offer for Continental.

If United were to offer a "bucket of dough," Continental would consider it, Misner told an investors conference Thursday. "We're not going to sit by and have the world rush by."

The combined companies would better cover the world by putting together Continental's strongest markets--in Latin America, Europe, the East Coast and the South--with United's network in Asia, Europe and the Midwest and West. Houston-based Continental is the nation's fifth-largest airline, and United is the second biggest.

Competition and too much capacity in the U.S. airline industry have held down air fares and helped push Elk Grove Township-based United and other carriers into bankruptcy. Industry executives and analysts have said consolidation, such as the September merger of US Airways and America West, is likely to continue.

"Prospects for industry consolidation appear somewhat better moving into 2006 given the surprisingly strong availability of equity capital" and the easing of scrutiny by antitrust regulators, Fitch Ratings' Bill Warlick said in a report Wednesday.

Delta Air Lines and Northwest Airlines, the nation's third- and fourth-largest carriers, sought Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection in September.

The biggest U.S. airlines have had $40 billion in losses from 2001 through the third quarter of 2005, partly because of more competition from discount airlines and an increase in fuel costs.

"We believe the industry would benefit from thoughtful consolidation," said Jean Medina, a United spokeswoman. "We're focused on completing our bankruptcy and exiting in February."

While merging airlines would be good for the industry, it's a "terribly disruptive, complicated process," Misner said.

Copyright © 2005, Chicago Tribune
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Ahhhh, just what we need. A new and refreshing perspective on how to operate a sucessful airline through M&A.
 
Ex737Driver said:
Ahhhh, just what we need. A new and refreshing perspective on how to operate a sucessful airline through M&A.

Success is in the eye of the beholder! The lawyers, executives, and bankers are probably seeing the last three years at UAL as a resounding success. They managed to break labor, hand over pension obligations to the taxpayer, and all the while raking in huge bucks. They'll be raising toasts on New Year's Eve saying "could it have been any better? No!"

Next!
 
densoo said:
Success is in the eye of the beholder! The lawyers, executives, and bankers are probably seeing the last three years at UAL as a resounding success. They managed to break labor, hand over pension obligations to the taxpayer, and all the while raking in huge bucks. They'll be raising toasts on New Year's Eve saying "could it have been any better? No!"

Next!

Nice analysis, sadly all too true. I'll second Patriots 328's feelings, although it was Your CFO who was gushing about the possible combo. Good luck
 
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Boeingman said:

I can't begin to imagine how much a CAL/UAL merger would suck for someone who is at CAL, let alone a new hire. How far back do United's furloughs go? How would they put the list together? 25-28% of the CAL list will retire in the next ten years. 4-5 yr upgrade projected for newhires here now. A 31-ish yr old new hire today will retire in the top 50-100 at CAL as it stands. Can't imagine what would happen if the airlines merged. The Great Walls of China and St. Louis might look like a pickett fence compared to this.


Rumor that's at least 4 people removed: UAL told it's MEC to contact CAL's MEC about discussing merging lists *in case* a deal goes through, which would imply they are deeply looking at it.


My non-voting-back-on-probation-a$$ would love to tell them to shove it.
 
Merger and Friendly rarely go together in the same sentence :).

I agree it would be total fubar for the pilot integration. I believe our most junior pilot recieving a recall is a Oct 99 hire. With the planned 300+ next year and our current acceptance rate....who know's.

Best of luck in your probationary year and congrats on your job.
 
The best merger is when everyone is pissed equally. Sucks
 
koko nw said:
Merger and Friendly rarely go together in the same sentence :).

Best of luck in your probationary year and congrats on your job.


LOL how true. We'll see what happens.


Never a dull moment :)
 
Past history of mergers has not faired well for those on furlough. There have been a couple of examples of new hires going ahead of pilots on furlough no matter what their date of hire was.

Face it, the only folks happy during one of these mergers are the lawyers and the bankers. Not to mention management types who will walk off with millions in golden parachutes. If ALPA was smart at both carriers we wouldn't let them play the fractionalization card, unite and insist on adequate protections for both carriers pilots.

Wait, what am I thinking. ALPA hasn't done anything smart or proactive in years. They only react and offer spineless solutions and glad handing to the membership. Dues are the only priority for ALPA.
 
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Unless one MEC(UAL) is stronger than the other(CAL)
 
Oh Boy It feels like 2000 all over again!

(aka...USAir buyout)

UAL coming out of BK and buying CAL? Hmmm....I guess I know where my 60% paycut went to and the 2.5 years of 100% paycut.

At least I have some good friends over at CAL I am sure we will have some fun over this issue in the next few months.

Our last furloughee recalled was a 11/99 hire, I expect we will be into the 2000 hire group within two months or so.
 
Yikes. There are still people at CAL who hail from the old Frontier and remember the "Brain Surgeon" comment. More fun than a barrel 'o monkeys.
 
Cardinal said:
Yikes. There are still people at CAL who hail from the old Frontier and remember the "Brain Surgeon" comment. More fun than a barrel 'o monkeys.

I also remember that one. What about the wonderful TORQUE campaign waged in Denver?

Hopefully most of those with that attitude are either gone or humbled by now.
 
Boeingman said:
I also remember that one. What about the wonderful TORQUE campaign waged in Denver?

Hopefully most of those with that attitude are either gone or humbled by now.

Can you inform the ones that were in elementary school when this was going on?
 
Boeingman said:
I also remember that one. What about the wonderful TORQUE campaign waged in Denver?

Hopefully most of those with that attitude are either gone or humbled by now.


Um yeah...that was WAY before my time.

I did fly with a few Old CAL types on the B727 that walked away form CAL during the strike in 83'
 
I wouldn't worry about this at all. NWA still owns the "golden share" of CAL, and can veto any corporate transaction that isn't in NWAs best interest.

Nu
 
NWA now owns 1 share of CAL's Series B Prefered stock it states in the SEC filing on 10/20/05


"Subject to restrictions and limitations contained in our charter, the preferred stock purchase rights should not interfere with any merger or business combination approved by our board of directors, because we may redeem the preferred stock purchase rights at the redemption price prior to the time that a person has become an acquiring person or amend the preferred stock purchase rights to make them inapplicable to the approved transaction."
-CAL SEC Filing 10/20/05
 
Unless I missread the annual report, I thought CAL bought back all their stock from NWA in early 2001? Did I miss something?
 
Thanks celloman; looks like we were posting at the same time.
 
Paradigm Shift?

It looks like we may see a CAL/UAL merger and a NWA/DAL merger. This has been talked about and leaked in press releases over and over. You can bet that if CAL and UAL do announce a merger, DAL and NWA will quickly do the same.

As for a CAL/UAL merger, I would think that the MEC's would agree to a DOH up to a certain point. After that point, all old furlougees from UAL and new furloughees (caused from a merger) from CAL should be one for one with all furloughees having priority unless it is a UAL/CAL merger. Then that would be a different story.

This industry is going to be interesting a the least over the next two to three years. Can we all say paradigm? Hang on to your hats! :eek:
 
celloman said:
NWA now owns 1 share of CAL's Series B Prefered stock it states in the SEC filing on 10/20/05


"Subject to restrictions and limitations contained in our charter, the preferred stock purchase rights should not interfere with any merger or business combination approved by our board of directors, because we may redeem the preferred stock purchase rights at the redemption price prior to the time that a person has become an acquiring person or amend the preferred stock purchase rights to make them inapplicable to the approved transaction."
-CAL SEC Filing 10/20/05

NWA may think differently. From what I understand of NWA's ownership of their "golden share" is that they may block any corporate transaction. Certainly CAL retains the right to redeem the share, but the "redemption price" might be exceedingly high. Of course, there's nothing to stop the would be purchaser from paying the price, but I'm certain that it would be fairly substantial.

On top of the "golden share" issue, the commercial agreement (the code share) between CAL and NWA (signed in 1998) also has a fair number of restrictions that are quite expensive to pay off. This agreement runs until 2018.

In answer to someone elses question. NWA was forced to sell off their common stock holdings in 2001 due to a DOJ anti-trust suit. They traded the stock in, but kept the preferred stock and retained the right to veto certain corporate transactions.

Nu
 
FutureTEDpilot said:
.

Our last furloughee recalled was a 11/99 hire, I expect we will be into the 2000 hire group within two months or so.

I'll be surprised if many of the 2000 hires come back. I predict hiring off the street if you hire more than 200 in 2006.

How many have bypassed so far??
 
NuGuy is correct. NWA has the say and would be paid very well to let anything happen. Deal was for 20 years if I recall. Controll for another decade or so. Can't recall when the deal was first signed.
 
For the CAL guys, I wouldn't be so worried about a senority list integration. First, furloughees are addressed AFTER all pilots on property... per ALPA policy. Second, UAL pilots have little to no backbone left, they proved this when they let their management steal their pensions and force 50% of paycuts and workrules reductions down their throat all with out a fight.
 
Tim47SIP said:
...........As for a CAL/UAL merger, I would think that the MEC's would agree to a DOH up to a certain point. After that point, all old furlougees from UAL and new furloughees (caused from a merger) from CAL should be one for one with all furloughees having priority unless it is a UAL/CAL merger. Then that would be a different story. ............. Hang on to your hats! :eek:

With CAL '98 hires in the left seat and 50% on the seniority list and UAL's '99 hires just now recalled................there's no F'n way a DOH integration would be a forgone conclusion. It would be way more complex and antagonistic than that.
 

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