UAL Aircraft to be Repossesed This Week?

[Boeingman]

FYI More Info:

I know I have been accused of getting all my UAL info from the USA Today, but some of the more intelligent posters on the board may like to peruse this site:

http://www.pd-ual.com/index.html

Don't worry Spinup, it is all in English.

 

[RJP]

767s to HAL?

Could work out nicely for Hawaiian. They've been reported to be looking for 4x767-300ERs that weren't 20+ years old. Emerging from Ch.11 tomorrow.

Hoping for news of their expansion in 24 hours!

 

[Jim]

That would be nice, but I'd hate to see us obtain them at any cost to the United pilots.

 

[Boeingman]

Reference to the pensions

Very sad letter from the widow of the Captain on UA 175 to Congressman Miller:



My name is Ellen Saracini. My husband Captain Victor J. Saracini was
the captain of United Flight 175 that struck the south tower of the
World Trade Center on September 11, 2001 at 9:03 am. While no one
could have imagined the events of that infamous day, neither could
Victor have imagined what would be happening right now to his wife and
his two daughters.

I am writing this letter to voice to you what is being taken away from
Victor and his family. If you knew my husband you would know he was a
true family man who made sure his family's future was provided for. I
am currently receiving the spousal portion of Victor's pension, which
is 50% of what he thought would be there for his family. After United
took away our ESOP stock, this pension is how I am supporting our two
daughters and myself.

I was given a choice to sue the Airlines, Port Authority, and others,
or join in the victims' compensation fund set up by the government. I
pledged I would not sue and proceeded with the fund; after all, this
is the company Victor was so proud to work for and the same company of
his United brothers and sisters. Every bit of preparation that Victor
and I worked for was used against the claim. Life insurance was
deducted. My full pension was deducted from the award. Now I will
have a double jeopardy as I will again loose my pension with no
recourse on either side.

During the last three years, my girls and I have been impacted more
than words can explain. One daughter is in counseling, the other
won't talk, and both have medical problems stemming from the loss of
their father while at the same time maintaining excellent grades in
honors and AP courses. I have stood up and been an advocate on the
steering committee of the terrorist's lawsuits, gaining information to
aid our Government. I have worked with APSA to defend our cockpits. I
am fundraising for the Garden of Reflection, a memorial park dedicated
to all we lost on that day. I have started a flight scholarship in
Victors name to continue his legacy in flight. We are doing
everything that can be done to make it better for all.

I can't help but to ask myself at what point are companies allowed to
take away so much from the lives of dedicated employees and their
families? At what point does our Government step in and stop
atrocities such as this before they are allowed to irrevocably change
the lives of so many? I refuse to believe that this is the only
solution that can be reached.

The PBGC's decision to allow United Airlines to end their pensions is
just wrong. If this monumental verdict moves forward, I will be faced
with many hardships. Victor was a proud United pilot, husband, father
and friend who fought a war with terrorists. Never would he have
imagined that he would have to fight for his family's well-being with
the very company he so proudly spread his wings.

Sincerely

Ellen Saracini

 

[Mugs]

Now there is a reality check if there ever was one.

I have no idea what the answer is here. I always felt that pension termination has been a mathematical certainty at UAL. If the company and the unions had put their foot down and said no to the terminations, the DIP funding would have been pulled a long time ago. The retirees would have wound up in the same place that they are now, except that they wouldn't even have an airline to pass ride on either (I know, not that pass riding is much of a pleasure anymore anyway). The additional amounts that would have been demanded from current labor to fund the pensions would have been long beyond the employee meltdown level. Unfortunately, this same tune is getting ready to be played in the U.S. auto industry. The result will be the same.

As always Boeingman, an excellent and very credible debate. I am disturbed by these 767s going back. It is like not making your car payments and getting a repo notice in the mail. If you then go to the dealer demanding to refinance the loan and get turned down unless you make all the back payments (and you don't), you are then losing your vehicle in a repo, not a "return". Period. Whatever the "plan" is going to be it it will be the international side of the operation that makes or breaks it. I believe that this year 55% of UAL's revenue will be generated on the international side. That makes it hard to brush off the loss of these aircraft, unless there is something going on with Airbus behind the scenes that nobody knows about (wishful thinking probably).

 

[Boeingman]

Thanks Mugs.

Your thoughts about an Airbus deal could very well materialize. With the problems they are having with the A-380, they could look for alternative sources of revenue by selling other jets. They have been inclined to come up with sweet deals in the past and since UAL is already an established Airbus customer it could happen. It might also be an avenue for UAL to avoid some of the leasing companies that were just stung with Airbus backing the deal. Good deal for UAL and for Airbus.

I also agree that UAL (and other legacy) management will have to keep as many of the lucrative International routes as possible. They could not possibly allow the flying these aircraft are doing today to just vanish. The revenue from international ops. subsidizing domestic opreations is going to be crucial in fending off the LCC's.