ua jumpseating

[airborn]

Commuting on UA, are the FA jumpseats open to only UA pilots/fas and offline pilots/fas?

Thanks.

 

[amt]

Only UA F/A and pilots...
Good luck bro

 

[bustinmins]

I was once bumped by a positive space guy (read: had assigned seat in back) and the agents put this tool in the jump and I got bumped. THANKS UAL!!!!

The reason I call him a tool is because I'm sure he could have inquired if there was a jumpseater - if he had, he might have refused this assignment. I've gone up front for revenue but I NEVER bumped a jumpseater out of it.

Enjoy that UAL ride!!!

Great crews...great airline...lousy system.

 

[airborn]

Thanks to the gates agents & crew at UA! Seamless jumpseating, thanks for the info and the ride.

 

[ualdriver]

UA F/A jumpseats are not available to UA pilots. They're only available to UA F/A's.

Should the UA pilot have bumped a paying UA passenger off a UA flight to take an off-line jumpseater? My guess was that the flight was probably totally full and he took the jumpseat in order to accomodate one of our paying passengers.

 

[Palomino]

UA F/A jumpseats are not available to UA pilots. They're only available to UA F/A's.

Should the UA pilot have bumped a paying UA passenger off a UA flight to take an off-line jumpseater? My guess was that the flight was probably totally full and he took the jumpseat in order to accomodate one of our paying passengers.

you're kidding right?

if the UA pilot is positive space then he/she should sit in his positive space. the very least he/she could've done was inquired about the jumpseat status. the positive spaced pilot will get where they're going no matter what. the offline jumpseater could easily be stranded by such a scenario. if a positive spacer sets a trend then they will always be EXPECTED to sit in the jumpseat and 'accomodate' a paying passenger who might be bumped because the airline OVERSOLD the flight.

not a good precedent to set...

 

[ERJFO]

you're kidding right?

if the UA pilot is positive space then he/she should sit in his positive space. the very least he/she could've done was inquired about the jumpseat status. the positive spaced pilot will get where they're going no matter what. the offline jumpseater could easily be stranded by such a scenario. if a positive spacer sets a trend then they will always be EXPECTED to sit in the jumpseat and 'accomodate' a paying passenger who might be bumped because the airline OVERSOLD the flight.

not a good precedent to set...

Agreed, I'll sit in the J/S to get non-revs on and I'll sit in my PS seat to get jumpseaters on. If it comes down between the two of those things I try to get a guy in the J/S first.

 

[ualdriver]

you're kidding right?

You're kidding right? You're a guest on someone else's airline and you're going to tell that other pilot where he can sit on HIS airline with HIS positive space ticket? Positive space on UA affords that pilot the RIGHT to sit on the jumpseat or in an assigned seat at his/her discretion.


if the UA pilot is positive space then he/she should sit in his positive space.

That's true in MOST situations. Except the "should" part. The positive pilot SHOULD sit wherever he/she wants per our contract. And in the VAST majority of cases, the positive space UA pilot will take into account whether other jumpseaters, on-line or off-line, and paying passengers are accommodated.


the very least he/she could've done was inquired about the jumpseat status.

True, as a professional courtesy, he/she should. And maybe he did. In fact, he probably did and had the difficult decision of screwing an off-line guy or screwing a paying customer.


the positive spaced pilot will get where they're going no matter what.

Not true. I know that first hand.


the offline jumpseater could easily be stranded by such a scenario.

So strand one of your paying customers instead? So if the plane is full, and the positive space pilot has a choice of either stranding a paying UA passenger (and causing the airline to incur the expense of denying boarding of that passenger, which could include meals and/or a voucher for future travel and/or a hotel room) or stranding an offline, non-UA jumpseater who is coming to UA expecting a courtesy, he/she should always choose to strand the passenger? The jumpseater can simply go to the next UA (or whatever airline's) flight to get to his destination.

if a positive spacer sets a trend then they will always be EXPECTED to sit in the jumpseat and 'accomodate' a paying passenger who might be bumped because the airline OVERSOLD the flight.

There's no "trend" being set. If it was a "trend," they'd be 1000 posts on FI about how terrible UA's jumpseat policy is. Some guys sit in their assigned seat no matter what, some guys don't, depending on the situation and that pilot's inclination. Again, it's their choice and their's alone. Maybe at your airline that would start a "trend" and an "expectation." Per my contract, there will be no expectation on my company's part for me to take the jumpseat until our contract is re-negotiated in '09. And if they want that, it will cost them.

not a good precedent to set...

There's no "precedent" being set. See above.

 

[Hvy]

When I jumpseat on another airline I'm always very thankful and would never dream of coming on an airline message board and complaining if things didn't go my way. If you have an issue, contact your jumpseat coordinator.

I'm always amazed at what someone thinks they are "owed." I would never think that I should be put on ANY airline as a jumpseater before a paying passenger is accomodated and neither should you. Why don't you contact your j/s coordinator? Maybe he can "school" you on how things work.

 

[Palomino]

you're kidding right?

You're kidding right? You're a guest on someone else's airline and you're going to tell that other pilot where he can sit on HIS airline with HIS positive space ticket? Positive space on UA affords that pilot the RIGHT to sit on the jumpseat or in an assigned seat at his/her discretion.


if the UA pilot is positive space then he/she should sit in his positive space.

That's true in MOST situations. Except the "should" part. The positive pilot SHOULD sit wherever he/she wants per our contract. And in the VAST majority of cases, the positive space UA pilot will take into account whether other jumpseaters, on-line or off-line, and paying passengers are accommodated.


the very least he/she could've done was inquired about the jumpseat status.

True, as a professional courtesy, he/she should. And maybe he did. In fact, he probably did and had the difficult decision of screwing an off-line guy or screwing a paying customer.


the positive spaced pilot will get where they're going no matter what.

Not true. I know that first hand.


the offline jumpseater could easily be stranded by such a scenario.

So strand one of your paying customers instead? So if the plane is full, and the positive space pilot has a choice of either stranding a paying UA passenger (and causing the airline to incur the expense of denying boarding of that passenger, which could include meals and/or a voucher for future travel and/or a hotel room) or stranding an offline, non-UA jumpseater who is coming to UA expecting a courtesy, he/she should always choose to strand the passenger? The jumpseater can simply go to the next UA (or whatever airline's) flight to get to his destination.

if a positive spacer sets a trend then they will always be EXPECTED to sit in the jumpseat and 'accomodate' a paying passenger who might be bumped because the airline OVERSOLD the flight.

There's no "trend" being set. If it was a "trend," they'd be 1000 posts on FI about how terrible UA's jumpseat policy is. Some guys sit in their assigned seat no matter what, some guys don't, depending on the situation and that pilot's inclination. Again, it's their choice and their's alone. Maybe at your airline that would start a "trend" and an "expectation." Per my contract, there will be no expectation on my company's part for me to take the jumpseat until our contract is re-negotiated in '09. And if they want that, it will cost them.

not a good precedent to set...

There's no "precedent" being set. See above.

i guess you don't commute or you just don't care. we do not agree on this discussion at all. the spirit of offline jumpseating is at risk with positions such as yours.

the jumpseat coordinators should definitely be brought into the loop in these scenarios.

 

[pipe]

you're kidding right?

You're kidding right? You're a guest on someone else's airline and you're going to tell that other pilot where he can sit on HIS airline with HIS positive space ticket? Positive space on UA affords that pilot the RIGHT to sit on the jumpseat or in an assigned seat at his/her discretion.


if the UA pilot is positive space then he/she should sit in his positive space.

That's true in MOST situations. Except the "should" part. The positive pilot SHOULD sit wherever he/she wants per our contract. And in the VAST majority of cases, the positive space UA pilot will take into account whether other jumpseaters, on-line or off-line, and paying passengers are accommodated.


the very least he/she could've done was inquired about the jumpseat status.

True, as a professional courtesy, he/she should. And maybe he did. In fact, he probably did and had the difficult decision of screwing an off-line guy or screwing a paying customer.


the positive spaced pilot will get where they're going no matter what.

Not true. I know that first hand.


the offline jumpseater could easily be stranded by such a scenario.

So strand one of your paying customers instead? So if the plane is full, and the positive space pilot has a choice of either stranding a paying UA passenger (and causing the airline to incur the expense of denying boarding of that passenger, which could include meals and/or a voucher for future travel and/or a hotel room) or stranding an offline, non-UA jumpseater who is coming to UA expecting a courtesy, he/she should always choose to strand the passenger? The jumpseater can simply go to the next UA (or whatever airline's) flight to get to his destination.

if a positive spacer sets a trend then they will always be EXPECTED to sit in the jumpseat and 'accomodate' a paying passenger who might be bumped because the airline OVERSOLD the flight.

There's no "trend" being set. If it was a "trend," they'd be 1000 posts on FI about how terrible UA's jumpseat policy is. Some guys sit in their assigned seat no matter what, some guys don't, depending on the situation and that pilot's inclination. Again, it's their choice and their's alone. Maybe at your airline that would start a "trend" and an "expectation." Per my contract, there will be no expectation on my company's part for me to take the jumpseat until our contract is re-negotiated in '09. And if they want that, it will cost them.

not a good precedent to set...

There's no "precedent" being set. See above.

Hey UAL Driver, you are wrong. There is a precedent being set. When your contract specifies positive space, or First Class, or whatever and you voluntarily "bend" your contract to get revenue on, you are setting a precedent. Keep doing that and watch what happens.

Past practice becomes the law in the world of contracts. If all of your compadres enforced their contract the way you do, you'd quickly find yourself with a positive space cockpit jumpseat for all of your scheduled deadheads. Kind of hard to "Fix it Now" when you don't enforce what you've got.

PIPE

 

[ualdriver]

Sorry buddy, in this situation I don't agree. If it's a choice between a paying UAL passenger and an off-line jumpseater in this VERY specific situation that I've never even encountered in 12 years (unless the off-line guy has a VERY URGENT reason to get on this flight and can't wait for the next one), the UAL customer wins. Otherwise, I'd agree with you and I don't think it's a good idea, regardless of FIN or not, to give up a positive space seat to take the jumpseat. Again, we're talking a very specific situation here.

 

[rtmcfi]

Sorry buddy, in this situation I don't agree. If it's a choice between a paying UAL passenger and an off-line jumpseater in this VERY specific situation (unless the off-line guy has a VERY URGENT reason to get on this flight and can't wait for the next one), the UAL customer wins. Otherwise, I'd agree with you and I don't think it's a good idea, regardless of FIN or not, to give up a positive space seat to take the jumpseat. Again, we're talking a very specific situation here.

Are you a commuter?

 

[ualdriver]

Nope. It's also an irrelevant point. If you're trying to say that I don't commute so therefore I just "don't get it," you're wrong. I, like most of my peers, go out of our ways to help guys get to where they're going on the jumpseat. I've even given up my jumpseat for someone else and waited for the next flight so a guy could make his check-in once. We've all done that I'm sure to help commuters get where they need to go.

Anyway, I'm done arguing this on the FI board. If you're on the same flight I'm on, AND I have a positive space ticket AND the flight is oversold AND there are no other UAL jumpseaters AND I have to make a choice between the off-line jumpseater or bumping one of my paying customers, you're going to walk to the next flight unless the Captain of said flight rules otherwise. It probably happens once every 20 or 30 years, so hopefully you won't be the unlucky one.

 

[dojetdriver]

It doesn't need to be restated, but;

Pilots are their own worst enemies.

 

[aa73]

UALdriver, I'd venture to say you are definitely in the minority here. As mentioned above, you are totally siding with your own airline management rather than with your fellow pilots. If your company has provided you a seat in the back, you use it and leave the j/s for your fellow commuting pilots. Doesn't matter who they work for, it is a common courtesy. I would also guess you've never commuted based on your attitude. I hope you come to grips some day with what you're accomplishing here - screwing your fellow commuting pilots just because you want a paying passenger not to get bumped. Gimme a break dude! Who's side are you on???

 

[Palomino]

Nope. It's also an irrelevant point. If you're trying to say that I don't commute so therefore I just "don't get it," you're wrong. I, like most of my peers, go out of our ways to help guys get to where they're going on the jumpseat. I've even given up my jumpseat for someone else and waited for the next flight so a guy could make his check-in once. We've all done that I'm sure to help commuters get where they need to go.

Anyway, I'm done arguing this on the FI board. If you're on the same flight I'm on, AND I have a positive space ticket AND the flight is oversold AND there are no other UAL jumpseaters AND I have to make a choice between the off-line jumpseater or bumping one of my paying customers, you're going to walk to the next flight unless the Captain of said flight rules otherwise. It probably happens once every 20 or 30 years, so hopefully you won't be the unlucky one.

hopefully this person and the accompanying mentality will retire soon

 

[rtmcfi]

ualdriver- how does your jsc feel about this situation?

 

[Getter]

UALdriver.... I have to disagree with you. I think the jumpseat coordinator and ALPA would frown on your line of thinking as well.

 

[airborn]

It doesn't need to be restated, but;

Pilots are their own worst enemies.

Spot on,

Blood pressure must be in the low 200's around here. Step away from the computer.

Anyway, on subject, thanks again for the ride UA. Sorry to create ludicrous debate.

 

[Hvy]

Just an observation: Many of you are jumping on UALDRIVER citing such things as "union brotherhood." Yet many of you do not hesitate to slam other "ALPA Carriers" any chance you get for any problem that they may have encountered. Seems a little self-serving to me.

You have heard just one side of the story from the complaintant. How do you know it's the right one? You don't. I immediately question someone who comes on an anonomous message board instead of persuing the matter through the appropriate channels.

I'll give you a scenario that just recently happened to me. I was on a positive space ticket for a 2 hour deadhead. The gate agent approached me with the following issue: a wounded soldier was going home accompanied by his mother. Their flight was late arriving for the connection and there was only 1 seat left. The gate agent apologized for putting me in this situation but asked if I would consider sitting in the jumpseat and giving my seat up for the mother. I spoke to the soldier myself. Ask yourself what you would have done if there was an offline jumpseater? Refuse to give up your seat? My point is...you have no idea why that guy sat in the jumpseat...so why are you jumping to conclusions
about what really happened if it even happened at all?

 

[dojetdriver]

Just an observation: Many of you are jumping on UALDRIVER citing such things as "union brotherhood." Yet many of you do not hesitate to slam other "ALPA Carriers" any chance you get for any problem that they may have encountered. Seems a little self-serving to me.

You have heard just one side of the story from the complaintant. How do you know it's the right one? You don't. I immediately question someone who comes on an anonomous message board instead of persuing the matter through the appropriate channels.

I'll give you a scenario that just recently happened to me. I was on a positive space ticket for a 2 hour deadhead. The gate agent approached me with the following issue: a wounded soldier was going home accompanied by his mother. Their flight was late arriving for the connection and there was only 1 seat left. The gate agent apologized for putting me in this situation but asked if I would consider sitting in the jumpseat and giving my seat up for the mother. I spoke to the soldier myself. Ask yourself what you would have done if there was an offline jumpseater? Refuse to give up your seat? My point is...you have no idea why that guy sat in the jumpseat...so why are you jumping to conclusions
about what really happened if it even happened at all?

True, always a different side to the story. And in the above I would GLADLY give up my seat, anytime. However, if things are running smoothly, no wx that day or in the past few days, then NO. I don't know about anybody else, but when you are standing at the gate and you see person after person walking up with the same story; "I got out of my meeting early, can I get on this flight?" If there is another pilot trying to get home/to work and the gate agent tells me they are trying to accomdate standby revenue and it's the above, sorry. Don't oversell the freaking airplane.

 

[Morning Wood]

UALdriver, I'd venture to say you are definitely in the minority here. As mentioned above, you are totally siding with your own airline management rather than with your fellow pilots. If your company has provided you a seat in the back, you use it and leave the j/s for your fellow commuting pilots. Doesn't matter who they work for, it is a common courtesy. I would also guess you've never commuted based on your attitude. I hope you come to grips some day with what you're accomplishing here - screwing your fellow commuting pilots just because you want a paying passenger not to get bumped. Gimme a break dude! Who's side are you on???

I'm curious if you'd feel differently if you were the beneficary of this guy trying to accomodate a jumpseat.