U/AWA E190 flying => Arbitration?

[Speedbird87]

80drvr & Green
You guys are right Doug wants the current contract that we have here in the east on the west and he dosn't care how he gets it but he is in for a big fight from the boys back east we have all given up alot and are not about to give any more.Thats why we have to get our MECs on the same battle plan and not get so worried about the senority issues.We know that its' not going to be DOH or relative position in this its going to be a compromise of both and we know from past experience that if you are not in the top 10% of your senority list you get something that you don't like but you live with it.

 

[captainjack]

Speedbird,

Your posts seem very level headed and mostly spot on. There are ways for AWA West pilots to fly the E190's before the integration and I'm very confident they will.

As most have said, the Company is laughing their tails off as we fight over the E190's while they distract us from the real issue of our combined contract.

We all need "Parity Plus" and should settle for nothing less.

 

[Green]

80drvr & Green
You guys are right Doug wants the current contract that we have here in the east on the west and he dosn't care how he gets it but he is in for a big fight from the boys back east we have all given up alot and are not about to give any more.Thats why we have to get our MECs on the same battle plan and not get so worried about the senority issues.We know that its' not going to be DOH or relative position in this its going to be a compromise of both and we know from past experience that if you are not in the top 10% of your senority list you get something that you don't like but you live with it.

Relative seniority is the middle ground and the only fair solution. You guys took the shoot for the moon approach which is basically a staple of our entire airline. We could have been as equally obstinate and demanded a staple of your airine considering your circumstances. However our merger committee chose to try and be "fair" from the start (an extremely poor decision in my opinion). Anything other than relative seniority screws the AWA pilot group which was in all intensive purposes the healthy, acquiring carrier.

Your merger committee's logic was pretty sound though asking for such an outrageous deal which in effect has helped to 'manage our expectations.' Hopefully the arbitrator sees right through it. I'm afraid our guys might have been outclassed in this deal. Oh well. I still fail to comprehend how the east guys can argue that any of the furloughees deserve to be senior to any of the active pilots. Hopefully we get one heck of a pay raise to wash away the bitter taste of getting screwed in seniority.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Relative seniority is the middle ground and the only fair solution. You guys took the shoot for the moon approach which is basically a staple of our entire airline. We could have been as equally obstinate and demanded a staple of your airine considering your circumstances. However our merger committee chose to try and be "fair" from the start (an extremely poor decision in my opinion). Anything other than relative seniority screws the AWA pilot group which was in all intensive purposes the healthy, acquiring carrier.

Your merger committee's logic was pretty sound though asking for such an outrageous deal which in effect has helped to 'manage our expectations.' Hopefully the arbitrator sees right through it. I'm afraid our guys might have been outclassed in this deal. Oh well. I still fail to comprehend how the east guys can argue that any of the furloughees deserve to be senior to any of the active pilots. Hopefully we get one heck of a pay raise to wash away the bitter taste of getting screwed in seniority.

Don't take their shoot for the moon approach too hard. They are just used to being boned repeatedly from mgmt. They are still in full combat mode from the rapings they took over the past 6 years from the wolfman and siegel. If you start ultra high you may end up with what is fair.........not the best way to start off a merger, but then again few pilot groups have endured the beatings that the U boys have.

In the end it will end up fair to both sides.....meaning that both will be pissed off.....a sure sign of a fair deal!!

 

[Speedbird87]

Green:
Just to let you know i agree with you and I know where you are coming from. In 1989 USAir bought Piedmont whom I had been working for for 2 years.The upgrade time at Piedmont which was growing and getting 737-300 was 4 years. Hiring stoped at Piedmont and continued at USAir and they took the aircraft that Piedmont had on order and sent them to Pittsburgh for the guys jr to me to fly and I was stuck on Reserve on the F-28 at a lower pay scales than the guys that were getting hired at USAir so I was pissed that ALPA was not representing the Piedmont guys and management liked that we were fighting over seniority issues and not the joint contract. We at Piedmont asked for relative position and the USAir guys asked for DOH which at the time was in tha ALPA merger policy.We lost and DOH was what the arbtratior ruled.The problem i see with relative position is that its hard to decide what relative position for any one pilot is.For example my situation I am# 121 out of 126 A320 F/O in Clt but I would be #4 F/O in Lga and # 20 in DCA but because I live in CLT and choose not to commute to those citys my relative position I would guess compares to a 1-2yr F/O in PHX.I think after 19 years on reserve I should get to fly a line before I retire in 2019. I am not an expert in this I am just a low life line pilot that pays my dues and hopes for the best. I am in no way for taking any Captains position that a current AWA pilot has and I am in NO way for taking a Captain seat away from an AWA F/O that should get one due to retirements at AWA. I would hope you agree that you should not get any Captain seats that open up due to USAirways East pilots retiring. I also hope in the case of future aircraft which for now it looks like 190s that the upgrades will be 1for1 and Doug keeps a happy employee group because we on the East have been beaten up so much the last 15 years we are just a group of grumpy employees. I just want this airline to make it so maybe I can get back into the left seat before I retire and than I can ride in the back and have a cold one while you command the A-330 enroute to Paris.