U/AWA - AA/TWA lesson

[eaglefly]

I think it's now abundantly clear that failing carriers should not be purchased by other carriers. IF they are going to fail, they should be allowed their destiny - faliure.

An airline should stand on it's own feet or let the marketplace insure it doesn't stand. If it does indeed fail, the ASSETS can be purchased by other carriers without the hassle of integration squabbles and their will be no "expectation" demands.

If your carrier is solvent, you'll never worry about this. If your carrier isn't, you'll also never worry about this as you'll have no "expectations" from being rescued.

Survival of the fittest !

 

[AA717driver]

Yeah. That, and you shouldn't stay at a commuter waiting for the "promise" of a job at a major... TC

 

[eaglefly]

Yeah. That, and you shouldn't stay at a commuter waiting for the "promise" of a job at a major... TC

I agree.

I'm happy driving to work, making $125K/year and having a life. The 7th year S80 F/O sitting RSV and commuting with 11 days off per month and an anus the size of the Lincoln tunnel gets my sympathy.

He was none to happy with his life and told me so repeatedly as I rode his jumpseat the other day. The "no growth" strategy AA is persuing has him thinking other airlines...............starting over at 39.

His captain (TWA guy - who didn't make all that much more than me for 2.5 times as many seats) was even more disgruntled.

They treated me fine (likewise), but their world was not attractive.

 

[waveflyer]

That's nice- but what can you do? CEO's are looking for deals - where inside the details they can get a windfall-- once the parachute is there-- who cares about the company??-- except for us, b/c we are married to it-- no other professional in any industry would be so scared to have to change companies. No other airline personnel are as attached by seniority as us. Everyone else's experience counts for something. They are using our seniority system against us and that will continue while it's in the current form- -- What are the benefits to what we have now? Is there no other way?

 

[pkober]

I agree.

I'm happy driving to work, making $125K/year and having a life. The 7th year S80 F/O sitting RSV and commuting with 11 days off per month and an anus the size of the Lincoln tunnel gets my sympathy.

He was none to happy with his life and told me so repeatedly as I rode his jumpseat the other day. The "no growth" strategy AA is persuing has him thinking other airlines...............starting over at 39.

His captain (TWA guy - who didn't make all that much more than me for 2.5 times as many seats) was even more disgruntled.

They treated me fine (likewise), but their world was not attractive.

Don't worry rationalizing your current place in life is healthy. You're probably one of these guys at a regional who can't leave (DUI, no college degree, whatever) and just sit around and talk about how shi++y everyone else's lives are.

You are looking at the world through a straw. Regionals exist only at the whim of the majors. The majors are looking to replace the 50 seat RJ's. Hopefully ,the pilot groups at the majors will stop allowing any anymore jets going to the regionals. If, and when, that happens the regionals will "die on the vine". If that happens than please post here again about how it's just survival of the fittest.

 

[FLYLOW22]

The majors are looking to replace the 50 seat RJ's. Hopefully ,the pilot groups at the majors will stop allowing any anymore jets going to the regionals. If, and when, that happens the regionals will "die on the vine". If that happens than please post here again about how it's just survival of the fittest.

Tell that to 90% of the "regionals" who now operate 70 and 90 seat "RJs".

Seriously.

MESA
Sheetaki
GoJet
ASA
Comair
Did that NWA Compass thing ever start?
REpublic
Eagle
Did I miss any?

Did Lakes get jets yet?

 

[eaglefly]

Don't worry rationalizing your current place in life is healthy. You're probably one of these guys at a regional who can't leave (DUI, no college degree, whatever) and just sit around and talk about how shi++y everyone else's lives are.

You are looking at the world through a straw. Regionals exist only at the whim of the majors. The majors are looking to replace the 50 seat RJ's. Hopefully ,the pilot groups at the majors will stop allowing any anymore jets going to the regionals. If, and when, that happens the regionals will "die on the vine". If that happens than please post here again about how it's just survival of the fittest.

LOL !

Regionals aren't going anywhere soon, although you'd be happy if they'd disappear tommorrow.

I can think of a hundred cities/towns that will need air transportation and are too small to be fed by a 737 with any frequency. Yes, the 50-seater is dead. The 70-seater is not and will be the future. Maybe larger turboprops too.

BTW, none of your hypotheticals apply to me, as I'm just happy where I am and not asking for anything you have. Mnay pilots fly corporate for $100K/year on a GIV and most inside and outside aviation would say that's a respectable life.

The sun doesn't rise and set in your cockpit, nor does my world revolve around it. That goes for whether it's a 757 or a slowtation. My straw has worked perfectly for 20 years.

I guess that pisses you off.

My point was not MY job, but the futility of mergers/aquisitions in this industry for pilots...........at least until a mainline demigod hijacked it for another opportunity to crap on a regional pilot.

Enjoy your career........................I'm enjoying mine.

 

[Kharma Police]

LOL !

Regionals aren't going anywhere soon, although you'd be happy if they'd disappear tommorrow.

I can think of a hundred cities/towns that will need air transportation and are too small to be fed by a 737 with any frequency. Yes, the 50-seater is dead. The 70-seater is not and will be the future. Maybe larger turboprops too.

The 50-seater makes up the majority of most regional fleets. It has been proven that the smaller RJ is not a profitable aircraft. Which aircraft do you think would be a viable replacement for the 50 if most regional’s are scope restricted on the number of 70 seaters?

 

[eaglefly]

LOL !

Regionals aren't going anywhere soon, although you'd be happy if they'd disappear tommorrow.

I can think of a hundred cities/towns that will need air transportation and are too small to be fed by a 737 with any frequency. Yes, the 50-seater is dead. The 70-seater is not and will be the future. Maybe larger turboprops too.

The 50-seater makes up the majority of most regional fleets. It has been proven that the smaller RJ is not a profitable aircraft. Which aircraft do you think would be a viable replacement for the 50 if most regional’s are scope restricted on the number of 70 seaters?

Looking around at DAL, UAL and U I see as many 70-seaters as I do 50-seaters.

Scope ?

A dying concept.....................

Look back ten years ago when there were a handful of RJ's. Where was scope then ? I was told ORD is 50% RJ ops now...............................50% !

I don't see anything larger than 70-seaters and I don't see a LARGER regional industry, I just see 50-seaters replaced with 70-seaters (for the most part) to fly most of the same routes already flown.

Capacity needs are going up every year and the 70-seater CAN make money. KLBB, JSHV, KJAX, KSYR, etc., can support 70-seaters. Mainline aircraft aquisitions are not going to go up fast enough to take over any of those cities and mainline carriers NEED those cities (and acceptable frequency) to remain profitable.

The regional industry is here to stay, but the 50-seater is not. Mainline pilots could attempt to scope out these carriers, but they'd just be hurting their companies profitability (and their own job security) in the process. THEY won't be flying 70-seaters, but they'll NEED them to keep market share (again, with frequency) and the 50-seaters will HAVE to be replaced.

I'm not worried.

But again, this is NOT an RJ/economics thread, nor a mainline/regional pilot penis measuring thread.

It's a merger/acquasition thread.

Perhaps we should move on ?

 

[BenderGonzales]

ainline pilots could attempt to scope out these carriers, but they'd just be hurting their companies profitability (and their own job security)

I'm sorry. Have I not been paying attention? Let's flash-back, ladies and gentlemen, a mere decade ago to 1996. There was no such thing as a regional jet.

These so called "regional" city-pairs were flown by the 65 seat Fokker 28, the 90 seat Fokker 100, the 100 seat DC9, or the 100 seat 737. Go back a few more years and there was the Bac 1-11. Interestingly, ALL of them paid more than the so-called "regional" jets do today.

Did the onset of the RJ phenomenon improve my job security at a major? I'd argue a big fat "NO". The parking of the DC9 and 737-200 created my furlough...but the outsourcing of that seating capacity extended the LENGTH of my furlough by literally YEARS. No, i'm sorry folks. The RJ negatively impacted job security at the majors -- and by the law of transitive properties -- fewer mainline jobs available for the shiny-jet-syndrome crowd. Next to ALPA the RJ has done more damage to the airline pilot profession than any other single entity.

The DC9 / 737 platform could have continued to compete profitably in just about any market. PeopleExpress and NewYork Air used to fly those aircraft from Rochester to Newark. US Airways filled up 737s between Charlotte and Greensboro. PSA (the original) filled up 737s and BAe 146s up and down the California coast. What changed? Did fewer people suddenly want to travel between those markets?

NO! The replacement jet reduced supply (allowing ticket prices to be raised) and at the same time brought with it an ultra-low employee cost. Why? Because Generation Y ("Why am I still a CFI?") was in such a darned hurry to move their career that they were willing to sell their collective souls to get that valuable jet time. The result today? An armada of low-paying replacement jets from 35 to over 100 seats...fewer mainline jobs...and those remaining mainline jobs have a fraction of the compensation, benefits, job security, and quality of life than they offered only a decade ago.

One decade.

ALPA and the RJ destroyed your profession.

But i'm preaching to a brick wall. You won't believe me until you're sitting in the unemployment office wondering how to recover a 15 year airline career after your first furlough...second furlough...third....?