Typical NJA management and dispatch

[gunfyter]

Well I guess I should not have blown a gasket then.

I think our dispatchers should be the best paid in Aviation. Its harder to do than dispatching to the same scheduled destinations every day.

there is more to screw up and its easier to screw up. They have to be better. And they are better. I have had some call me in flight to keep me up to date on potentially hairy situations.

What has been the most valuable to me is our Meteorology staff. Whenever there is a doubt I call them before and during flight to ask How do I get around/over etc, this mother of all storm systems ahead of me? 100 times better than dealing with Flight Service.

 

[Ultra Grump]

I know this goes back to yesterday's posts and I hate to be the English police, but.....

CAN WE STOP SPELLING THE WORD LOSE WITH TWO O's PLEASE???

If the nut behind the wheel (that's the pilot) isn't fully tightened, that is a loose nut behind the wheel ( two o's).

If his mental stability is in question, he's about to lose his mind (one o).

Thank you. I feel better now. Carry on.

Dude, that's just the tip of the iceberg...

(English police hat on)

How about the difference between:

waste - waist

where – were - wear

there – their – they’re

ensure – insure

quite – quiet

hear – here

prolly – probably

to – too

who’s – whose

its – it’s – its’

break – brake

except – accept

than – then

definately – definitely

than – then

opps – oops

consistant - consistent


If any of you are unsure, please do us a favor and look it up. Spell check does not catch improper word usage.


(English police hat off)

 

[squonk]

Grump and Gutshot: Y'all sound like my wife! Stop it!

On another note, I don't want to go backwards here. I personally like having dispatch faxing the release and at least having another set of eyes on it (even if they had to do 49 others that morning! Maybe they caught something? ) , just a check and balance. I know most of us have filed thousands of plans before in another life or at this job, but lets not get carried away!

 

[dsptchrnja]

dsptchr posted:



Dsptch,

Hey another question on these NFZs. After the NFZ is released, what does it take to dispatch into a NFZ? Is that 48 hrs a hard and fast number or is that just a guideline? I looked in the FOM and did not find any guidance. Is there some other place I could see this info?

Thanks, H

To clarify, the Hurricane No-Fly zones are set up 48 hours in advance but that does not mean the area is restricted for 48 hours. When the NFZ is set up it states on the document what time the NFZ goes into effect. The way they come up with the time of closure is by calculating when the winds will be greater than 34knots. Any of it can be modified at the meteorologist and DO's discretion. You can see the NFZ's under the Hurricane briefing tab on the NJA weather intranet.

 

[dsptchrnja]

dsptchrNJA:

Quote:
We have some really quacky owners that have done some unbelievable things in flight.


OH do tell! [/QUOTE

Yeah man, let's hear it! This is where the thread should go. $hit, dispatch, release. Those words don't mean squat in 91/91K, unless I'm behind in my reading...which is entirely possible ;-)

Jeez, the pilots are the ones with all the juicy stories. But usually what happens on NxxxQS - stays on NxxxQS. Most of the ones I know of the owners are still with us so it wouldn't be in good taste to risk letting them see their little story on the internet. But, in context to operational control, I was referring to ones we've had like the lady while flying on a QS tail a while back on an international leg demanded the crew take her to Cuba. I think they did divert, but it wasn't Cuba!

 

[dsptchrnja]

Looks like the dispatcher role is just for show, based on the comments I see here from the pilots.....maybe its just "feel good" stuff for the owners to give the appearance of a safer flight....again based on some comments here Like from "IFLYOU" you dispatchers really have no say when it comes do to it...so how could any of you be held accountable for any release? Whats Ironic about this whole thing is you guys/gals are paid higher than any part 121 dispatcher where their license is truly at stake and they do have absolute operational control and resposibility for the pax safety with the PIC...Interesting turn in the industry.

What 121 operation do you dispatch for?

Your understanding is quite confused. The comments made by IFLYOU were a bit over the top, so I don't fault you for that. The approach to dispatching at NJA is not exactly the same as it is at 121 carriers (although - we will be 121 supplemental carrier next year (NJLA) and will have to adopt a more similiar style). At 121, your approach is centered around control (and safety) - as you implied in your comments. At NJA, our approach is centered around service (and safety). The service we provide is TIME and SAFETY for our crews. You would have to see our scheduling system to really understand. But we ask crews to do a lot of flights and when the changes start coming and planes start breaking the crews don't even always get the full hour in between flights to eat, let alone flight plan, analyze weather, calculate performance, fuel analysis, and file a flight plan. One minute they are asked to go to PBI, the next minute they are supposed to go to some po-dunk airport in Texas no one has ever heard of. So if they show up at the FBO and all they have to do is review all the dirty work that's been done and perhaps check a few things, that is buying a lot of time and giving them perhaps more mental stamina to concentrate on passengers and planes rather than worrying about if they calculated the weight and balance correctly or figuring out if the dang airport we want them to go to even has fuel service available. And it buys time to allow crews to fly more legs in a day than they could otherwise.

Yes, NJA sells the concept to the owners that they go above the minimum requirement of what's required by instituting a dispatch system. It doesn't just give the appearance of a safer flight, as you say, it IS a safer flight for the same reason it is at your 121 carrier. I'm not so worked up about control as you guys are. But the system of controls is in place and responsibilites are clearly defined.

You may be making the same mistake some pilots do - confusing pay with responsibility. If life were perfect, it certainly should work that way but just doesn't. NJA dxrs might get paid more because the work is harder than the avg 121 dx (at least that's what I prefer to think). Don't confuse that to mean we provide a better service. 121 dxr's know the eqiupment they are dispatching better than we frax dxrs. But I think more is asked of us. We have no route structure. I did about 40 releases earlier today - almost triple what you would have done - and I had to build all my routes for city pairs that aren't in a route database - for some challenging airports you have never heard of. 1 minute before I got to work I had no idea which 2 or 3 out of 12 different types of aircraft I might be working today. You (121) only work one type and have more training on it. And I eat lunch while working every day because if I don't I will get too far behind and screw the next shift. Not saying at all anyone is "better" - just pointing out the differences.

Starting out I had a job offer from NJA and from a United regional. I could have gone either way but took NJA because of the money and I have family in Ohio. I would love to work in a Delta or AA flight center but will never go back now because I would have to take a huge pay cut and start all over again. Best of luck to you.

 

[El Chupacabra]

Good post Dispatcher,

Oh yes we had to plan and file all those flights before... Then as soon as I was done.. trip changed... maybe 3 times before we went anywhere.

But you are killing me by saying you are paid more than 121 because you work harder than other operations...

But the pilots are confused...

I am optimistic this whole mess will be settled soon. No sense throwing any more fuel on the fire here.

 

[dsptchrnja]

Good post Dispatcher,

Oh yes we had to plan and file all those flights before... Then as soon as I was done.. trip changed... maybe 3 times before we went anywhere.

Yah, we DEFINATELY know now how much fun that is! Don't know what the record is, lost count one day. SJC tower got so fed up with it one day they told us don't bother filing any more.

But you are killing me by saying you are paid more than 121 because you work harder than other operations...

Meant to say the work is harder - subtle difference - my bad. No reason to doubt my 121 brothers work hard.

 

[rvsm410]

SOme differences....

What 121 operation do you dispatch for?

Your understanding is quite confused. The comments made by IFLYOU were a bit over the top, so I don't fault you for that. The approach to dispatching at NJA is not exactly the same as it is at 121 carriers (although - we will be 121 supplemental carrier next year (NJLA) and will have to adopt a more similiar style). At 121, your approach is centered around control (and safety) - as you implied in your comments. At NJA, our approach is centered around service (and safety). The service we provide is TIME and SAFETY for our crews. You would have to see our scheduling system to really understand. But we ask crews to do a lot of flights and when the changes start coming and planes start breaking the crews don't even always get the full hour in between flights to eat, let alone flight plan, analyze weather, calculate performance, fuel analysis, and file a flight plan. One minute they are asked to go to PBI, the next minute they are supposed to go to some po-dunk airport in Texas no one has ever heard of. So if they show up at the FBO and all they have to do is review all the dirty work that's been done and perhaps check a few things, that is buying a lot of time and giving them perhaps more mental stamina to concentrate on passengers and planes rather than worrying about if they calculated the weight and balance correctly or figuring out if the dang airport we want them to go to even has fuel service available. And it buys time to allow crews to fly more legs in a day than they could otherwise.

Yes, NJA sells the concept to the owners that they go above the minimum requirement of what's required by instituting a dispatch system. It doesn't just give the appearance of a safer flight, as you say, it IS a safer flight for the same reason it is at your 121 carrier. I'm not so worked up about control as you guys are. But the system of controls is in place and responsibilites are clearly defined.

You may be making the same mistake some pilots do - confusing pay with responsibility. If life were perfect, it certainly should work that way but just doesn't. NJA dxrs might get paid more because the work is harder than the avg 121 dx (at least that's what I prefer to think). Don't confuse that to mean we provide a better service. 121 dxr's know the eqiupment they are dispatching better than we frax dxrs. But I think more is asked of us. We have no route structure. I did about 40 releases earlier today - almost triple what you would have done - and I had to build all my routes for city pairs that aren't in a route database - for some challenging airports you have never heard of. 1 minute before I got to work I had no idea which 2 or 3 out of 12 different types of aircraft I might be working today. You (121) only work one type and have more training on it. And I eat lunch while working every day because if I don't I will get too far behind and screw the next shift. Not saying at all anyone is "better" - just pointing out the differences.

Starting out I had a job offer from NJA and from a United regional. I could have gone either way but took NJA because of the money and I have family in Ohio. I would love to work in a Delta or AA flight center but will never go back now because I would have to take a huge pay cut and start all over again. Best of luck to you.

Thanks for keeping me on track...I was not however deminishing the role you folks are asked to perform....I appreciate what you do, I have 2 friends that are infact dispatchers there...however we have not had time to really debate the differences....it is true we are control oriented because the FAA mandates that we fill this role...we are in fact held responsible for the releases we produce, the inflight "service" we provide the crews/Passengers...and if things go really bad and there are no pilots to talk to afterwards, then we are the individuals that show up in front of the NTSB to explain our and the crews actions as a result of our relationship....to and including loss of license and the possibility of charges.

Our job is also to allow the crew more time to fly the aircraft and not do all the other paperwork and planning...We too have to build routes in some cases, we have to remain vigilant to Wx Changes and give the crews a heads up, If time allows, I will work out reroutes with ATC and provide them a change before they even know they needed it...Our jobs are very similar in most cases...On my average 10 hours shift, I release 67 flights...actually had time to flight follow my "hard IFR" flights and provide assistance, the others are flying VFR Wx conditions and know how to get in touch with me....I eat my lunch at my desk with short bathroom breaks....

As for equiptment, I can't compete with all the acft you folks fly..Nor would I want to , however I have had to be fully trained on all our types of acft, jets and Props at one time and release them all on my shift as well, going to all regions of the country, Mex and CAN...and in some cases work out charters to new unscheduled airports in support of sports teams, and elections...We have good MX folks to help us through, but we are expected to understand the emplications of the MELS, and we have to undertand the weather very well as most 121's dont have a MET department with a few exceptions...and I hear the likes of UAL MET is about to get farmed out and those folks well hit the streets...soon.

There is good and poor dispatchers and pilots everywhere..I was just trying to understand why I have observed some of your own pilots slaming you guys when you really do much more for them than they would or will get from a 121 Dispatcher...I think you folks are great, but I also think there has got to be alot of frustrations there at NJA that we dont have in Pax 121..Best of luck to you all, I would have loved to work with you folks, but not living near CMH, forced into commuting without the usual 121 flight benefits away from OH was a show stopper for me.. Just point out some of the differences as well...Good discussion!

Oh as for the 121 sup you will be getting approval for on the BBJ's you will find this is a hoot as well, as the DO over that operation will have the actual Ops control over the flight...You might be in charge but He/she will have the final say by the SUP regs...I did this kind of work as well, pushing boxes all over the western hemisphere....it was much closer to the type of work you do now at NJA...to include dealing with customs, USDA and flight permits..not to mention the extra money carried on Mexican Flights to assure our birds got out, and the MX and fly away kits we carried to make on the spot repairs....fun stuff, sometimes....

 

[Lake Alice]

At NJA, our approach is centered around service (and safety). The service we provide is TIME and SAFETY for our crews.

Service, exactly, for the owners only. Time saving, yes, safety no. Worst bunch I have ever seen, led by their incompetent leader.