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Type rating to operate MU-2?

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Alex429595

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 7, 2006
Posts
105
This from Avweb:

" The design of the Mitsubishi MU-2B twin turboprop is not inherently unsafe, the FAA said in a safety report released last week. The airplane has been involved in 11 accidents in the last two years, in which 12 people died. The FAA's analysis found that compared to similar twin-turboprop airplanes, the MU-2B accident rate is about twice as high. The fatal rate is about 2.5 times higher, while fatal accident rates in icing conditions are four times higher. An MU-2B pilot is seven times more likely to lose control and have a fatal accident during an emergency compared to pilots flying similar airplanes in similar situations. The airplane is complex and high-performance, the FAA said, and pilots and maintenance workers need better training to properly handle and fly it. The safety review was undertaken after several members of Congress from Colorado asked for the airplane to be grounded, following two fatal crashes at Centennial Airport."

"The FAA found that the use of MU-2B airplanes has changed. Originally marketed as a corporate aircraft in the 1960s, it is used more today for cargo hauling and private operations. This switch means the aircraft is now "in the hands of pilots and maintenance providers who, in general, have less experience in high-performance airplanes than when it was used primarily as corporate transportation," the FAA said. Those pilots aren't getting the kind of training and proficiency checks that corporate pilots would, and they may operate a variety of aircraft, not just the MU-2B. Further, this shift in usage exposes the airplanes to more frequent night flight operations. Mitsubishi spokesman Scott Sobel told The Associated Press the company stands behind the aircraft's safety record when used properly. "MU-2 aircraft operators need to be trained according to the manufacturer's flight manual procedures, which have been in place for decades to maintain safety standards," Sobel said."

"AOPA said it was satisfied with the FAA's report. "The FAA heeded our recommendation and will likely issue a Special Federal Aviation Regulation (SFAR) to require specific MU-2B training," said Luis Gutierrez, AOPA director of regulatory and certification policy. "We think this is the right result and a much better solution than issuing an airworthiness directive." But AOPA did have a nitpick with the report, which says that for single-pilot IFR operations using an autopilot, compliance with the AD requiring the installation of trim-in-motion and autopilot disconnect systems is recommended. "The report doesn't mention the alternate means of compliance (AMOC) to this AD, which we believe offers an equivalent level of safety," said Gutierrez. "The FAA should make it clear that the AMOC is also acceptable."
 
I think that pretty much says what most have said all along. The aircraft is perfectly safe when flown properly and professionally. It's not the type of aircraft that is forgiving when flown improperly. Do it right or don't do it at all. Close enough will get you killed.
 
Alex429595 said:
This from Avweb:

" The design of the Mitsubishi MU-2B twin turboprop is not inherently unsafe, the FAA said in a safety report released last week. The airplane has been involved in 11 accidents in the last two years, in which 12 people died. The FAA's analysis found that compared to similar twin-turboprop airplanes, the MU-2B accident rate is about twice as high. The fatal rate is about 2.5 times higher, while fatal accident rates in icing conditions are four times higher. An MU-2B pilot is seven times more likely to lose control and have a fatal accident during an emergency compared to pilots flying similar airplanes in similar situations. The airplane is complex and high-performance, the FAA said, and pilots and maintenance workers need better training to properly handle and fly it. The safety review was undertaken after several members of Congress from Colorado asked for the airplane to be grounded, following two fatal crashes at Centennial Airport."

"The FAA found that the use of MU-2B airplanes has changed. Originally marketed as a corporate aircraft in the 1960s, it is used more today for cargo hauling and private operations. This switch means the aircraft is now "in the hands of pilots and maintenance providers who, in general, have less experience in high-performance airplanes than when it was used primarily as corporate transportation," the FAA said. Those pilots aren't getting the kind of training and proficiency checks that corporate pilots would, and they may operate a variety of aircraft, not just the MU-2B. Further, this shift in usage exposes the airplanes to more frequent night flight operations. Mitsubishi spokesman Scott Sobel told The Associated Press the company stands behind the aircraft's safety record when used properly. "MU-2 aircraft operators need to be trained according to the manufacturer's flight manual procedures, which have been in place for decades to maintain safety standards," Sobel said."

"AOPA said it was satisfied with the FAA's report. "The FAA heeded our recommendation and will likely issue a Special Federal Aviation Regulation (SFAR) to require specific MU-2B training," said Luis Gutierrez, AOPA director of regulatory and certification policy. "We think this is the right result and a much better solution than issuing an airworthiness directive." But AOPA did have a nitpick with the report, which says that for single-pilot IFR operations using an autopilot, compliance with the AD requiring the installation of trim-in-motion and autopilot disconnect systems is recommended. "The report doesn't mention the alternate means of compliance (AMOC) to this AD, which we believe offers an equivalent level of safety," said Gutierrez. "The FAA should make it clear that the AMOC is also acceptable."
Absulute crap! The cargo rats I have flown with over the years are much more capable in tuff situations then any corporate guys I have flown with.
 
xjcaptain said:
I think that pretty much says what most have said all along. The aircraft is perfectly safe when flown properly and professionally. It's not the type of aircraft that is forgiving when flown improperly. Do it right or don't do it at all. Close enough will get you killed.
How much MU-2 time do you have might I ask?:puke:
 
Koslen said:
Absulute crap! The cargo rats I have flown with over the years are much more capable in tuff situations then any corporate guys I have flown with.
I have to agree with you on that one.
And before someone chimes in with the "I knew somebody with 550000 hours and stunk, and flew with a corporate pilot with 150 hours that was the second coming of Yeager, Hoover and Tucker all rolled into one". Yes we all know there are exceptions, but generally....
 
Koslen said:
How much MU-2 time do you have might I ask?:puke:

To be honest...not much. But are you claiming that MU-2's have a mind of their own and just on a whim fall out of the sky for no reason whatsoever? Or are SOME of the people that are flying it just not up to the task in a high-performance/ high workload aircraft while operating as single pilot. Maybe some are just in a little over their heads. Like it or not, not all aircraft behave like the cherokee that they got their initial ratings in. Some require more skill than others. Like others have said a lot of the cargo guys are very well qualified. However some operators put low time relativly inexperienced pilots into an aircraft that they might not yet be able to fully handle in all conditions. Like it or not, a lot of the smaller cargo outfits that fly these aircraft are the first real jobs a lot of these pilots have had operating in these conditions.
 
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Koslen said:
Absulute crap! The cargo rats I have flown with over the years are much more capable in tuff situations then any corporate guys I have flown with.

maybe...but "cargo rats" sometimes have gotten themselves into situations that a smart corp guy would have never exposed himself or his pax to. Thats what they get paid to do.

Its not about stick skills buddy, its about decision making.

funny after 10 years of flying corporate I have never found myself in one of your "tuff situations".

You're not fighting a war buddy, you're hauling cancelled checks.

:rolleyes:
 
Apples and Oranges

Freight guys fly in a completely different environment. Bad weather and the pressure to get the job done in no way compare to corporate aviation. Working for questionable operators that skimp on Mx issues and training of all those invoved.
The FAA throws this one off on the operators yet fails to understand that they are responsible for oversight of this segment of aviation. They need to get involved with their operators to insure standards are maintained and accident chains are broken.

The Mits is a perfectly safe aircraft when operated by mature companies that can mitigate the risk by training and spending money on timely maintenence issues. Neither of these accidents would probably have happened if certain failures had not occured.
 
Peanut gallery said:
Freight guys fly in a completely different environment. Bad weather and the pressure to get the job done in no way compare to corporate aviation. Working for questionable operators that skimp on Mx issues and training of all those invoved.
The FAA throws this one off on the operators yet fails to understand that they are responsible for oversight of this segment of aviation. They need to get involved with their operators to insure standards are maintained and accident chains are broken.

The Mits is a perfectly safe aircraft when operated by mature companies that can mitigate the risk by training and spending money on timely maintenence issues. Neither of these accidents would probably have happened if certain failures had not occured.


way wrong. We all fly in the same weather.

and who provides more pressure...a sack of checks or a Fortune XX CEO who might not understand "no"....who has more to lose- the 20K/yr freight dog or the 100K+ corp guy?...Now, everyone says "my boss knows I have final say"..yeah right. You may, but you better have your ducks in order and have a good alternate plan.

The problem is the level of experience - hence the "freight dog" mentality. I never understood the big dik thing and braggin about flying junk through thunderstorms etc..then thinking its a badge of honor or makes you a better pilot. Believe it or not corporate guys see this too - you wouldnt believe the $hit people share in class at FSI recurrents. Things I would never admit to nor bring up.

Is it good experience? maybe...we have all done jobs like that...they trick is getting out before teaching yourself bad habits IMHO. Being known as a "freight dog" may not be the best label when job shopping. NOTHING "has" to get there - not even a billionaire CEO on his way to a billion dollar deal, and the mentality that it "has to" would scare me from hiring you.

Anyhow....Those who say the MU2 is as safe as any aircraft are simply wrong. Numbers dont lie. Its not coincidence. Its cheap operators who can only afford inexperienced pilots. and I agree with you...they dont train because training costs money. Its a bad combination.
 
xjcaptain said:
To be honest...not much. But are you claiming that MU-2's have a mind of their own and just on a whim fall out of the sky for no reason whatsoever? Or are SOME of the people that are flying it just not up to the task in a high-performance/ high workload aircraft while operating as single pilot. Maybe some are just in a little over their heads. Like it or not, not all aircraft behave like the cherokee that they got their initial ratings in. Some require more skill than others. Like others have said a lot of the cargo guys are very well qualified. However some operators put low time relativly inexperienced pilots into an aircraft that they might not yet be able to fully handle in all conditions. Like it or not, a lot of the smaller cargo outfits that fly these aircraft are the first real jobs a lot of these pilots have had operating in these conditions.
Now you and I are on the same page. Unfortunatly some operators are willing to put guys into an aircraft like the mits long before they are ready for it. I personaly have not seen this with the guys I have worked for but it happens more and more often these days. I believe we will see more hull losses with the regional carriers for the same reasons.

:beer:
 

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