Twa 800

[FN FAL]

Hey FN FAL,

Do the chicks in your avatar eat a boxed lunch?

What does that have to do with the correlation between the untrustworthy eye witness accounts of the TWA-800 disaster and the trustworthy eye witness accounts of the Katrina baby throat slashings and mass rapes at the super dome?

 

[ms6073]

If any of you have ever done DoD charters, you would know explosives or ammo are not allowed in the pax cabin at any time.

As already mentioned, in general this depends on the which type of DOD personnel that are being transported as SOCOM and special ops capable units do not play by the same rules as conventional forces.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

What are the similarities, if any, between TWA 800, the Egyptian flight, and the Swissair flight that also crashed after take off from New York? Swissair (Sept 2, 1998) and Egypt Air (Oct 31, 1999) I am particularly curious about the distances apart from each other. I am not suggesting that all 3 were shot down by a missile, but I am curious about the length of time after take off, and the proximity to each other (distances).

I do support the missile theory for the TWA 800 crash for many reasons. However, I do not believe it was done by our military.

There are really no similarities here besides general location. Neither of these airplanes exploded in mid air. The evidence was pretty clear in the SwissAir crash that there was a fire in the cabin. As for the EgyptAir crash, there was no evidence of an explosion. For whatever reason it dived into the ocean nose first (probably suicide).

 

[SkyBoy1981]

What does that have to do with the correlation between the untrustworthy eye witness accounts of the TWA-800 disaster and the trustworthy eye witness accounts of the Katrina baby throat slashings and mass rapes at the super dome?

LOL. Excellent post.

 

[Ill Mitch]

What does that have to do with the correlation between the untrustworthy eye witness accounts of the TWA-800 disaster and the trustworthy eye witness accounts of the Katrina baby throat slashings and mass rapes at the super dome?

That's apples and tangerines. In the case of TWA-800, there were hundreds of witnesses, independant of each other, who describe the same event occuring.
The Superdome, that was like lining up 100 people and telling the first person "Mary was clapping at the concert...pass it on". By the time it reaches the last person it is going to turn into something completely different.

 

[AAslag]

The interim fix required crewmembers to deactivate the center tank pumps at a predetermined level. That procedure may still exist.

I was never on the Whale, this applied to the 767 also.

Oddly enough, the center tanks on our series 767's continued to siphon feed to zero. Irregardless of the boost pump switch position.

I Never blew up! At least as far as I can tell. Is this reality.....Hello, Buehler, anyone. Just digressing, sorry.

 

[FN FAL]

That's apples and tangerines. In the case of TWA-800, there were hundreds of witnesses, independant of each other, who describe the same event occuring.

The Superdome, that was like lining up 100 people and telling the first person "Mary was clapping at the concert...pass it on". By the time it reaches the last person it is going to turn into something completely different.

But, Mary WAS clapping at the concert.

 

[Dangerkitty]

But, Mary WAS clapping at the concert.

I heard she was eating a box lunch.

 

[atrdriver]

EagleRJ, Yes I did. For every expert like the deceased gentleman who came up with that secondary review, there are dozens of NTSB field investigators who actually conducted the investigation. Note the difference between those two words. Was that gentleman a structures guy? The investigators report was adopted by the full board, who at the time was chaired by Jim Hall, a gentleman who has been a warrior for the truth.

I do appreciate the fact that you've actually looked at this carefully, you're perhaps the only person on this board making this assertion who sounds like he's done enough reading and applied enough critical thought to be entitled to say he's developed an informed opinion. I just happen to think you're wrong. (You are wrong about the which is more likely question, but my question doesn't prove anything.)

You know, it doesn't really matter which is more likely. Look up likely in the dictionary. Something that is likely doesn't always happen, and something that is unlikely often does happen. There are too many unanswered pieces here to write it off as a "certain CFT" explosion. I have read and informed myself about this case, and I believe that it was shot down in some way.

BTW, how do you explain that the video that was produced to show the public what happened was produced by the CIA? The very first time in the history of aviation that the CIA aided in an accident investigation and explination.

 

[Occam's Razor]

BTW, how do you explain that the video that was produced to show the public what happened was produced by the CIA? The very first time in the history of aviation that the CIA aided in an accident investigation and explination.

Wrong. "Factish"...but wrong. The assets used were the same that have been used to investigate military mishaps that lacked credible eyewitness reports and/or physical evidence (mostly mishaps at sea).

To be honest I'm not sure exactly who owns the assets or generates the tm data. I've seen it, studied it, and put it back in the safe (as a military Mishap Board member for a fighter lost at sea with no clue what happened).

My estimate is about 100 mishaps that have had "external data" provided by a government agency. It wasn't the CIA, and it wasn't the "first".

 

[gkrangers]

9 pages later..the only thing I'm certain of is that LJDRVR is a dick.

 

[flx757]

9 pages later...

And I doubt anything has been "proven" in this discussion...nor do I think anyone's mind has been changed regarding what they believe is the "truth".

Kind of sums up this "discussion" as well as just about every other internet message board discussion, IMO.

 

[Ill Mitch]

But, Mary WAS clapping at the concert.

No one doubts that, but by the end of line of 100 people, she is going to have the clap and her eyes would have been gouged out by aliens from Area 51 who were seen mutilating some cows.

 

[atrdriver]

Wrong. "Factish"...but wrong. The assets used were the same that have been used to investigate military mishaps that lacked credible eyewitness reports and/or physical evidence (mostly mishaps at sea).

To be honest I'm not sure exactly who owns the assets or generates the tm data. I've seen it, studied it, and put it back in the safe (as a military Mishap Board member for a fighter lost at sea with no clue what happened).

My estimate is about 100 mishaps that have had "external data" provided by a government agency. It wasn't the CIA, and it wasn't the "first".

Got news for you. At the beginning of the video it states "animation by the CIA" or something to that effect. So tell me again that it wasn't the CIA???

 

[Clear-&aMillion]

TWA 800 was accidentally shot down by the US navy. It's no secret. From the moment the Navy realized what they had done, federal agencies were working night and day to recover the wreckage, and conceal from the public what had happened. They did this by conducting false investigations, forcing local agencies out of the area, stepping all over the NTSB, and threatening the media. That is the truth.

 

[LJDRVR]

9 pages later..the only thing I'm certain of is that LJDRVR is a dick.

You may be right, Greg.

I just got back from a two-day and read this whole stinkin' thread over. It occurs to me my demeanor was a bit overzealous. Everybody should believe whatever they like here; I have no desire to change anybody's mind.

Please understand there are two issues with the TWA 800 threads that get me all riled up.

• There seems to be thread of belief that a CWT explosion just couldn't happen. However, I lost my lap-swimming buddy and good friend Rob Wienman in 1989 when the CWT on the KC-135 he was co-piloting exploded at 5000' No fuel, just vapor. Digging through the accident databases reveal CWT issues are nothing new for Boeing. I tend to take it a bit more personally than I should, but Boeing CWT's have been exploding since 1961.

• I distrust my government as much as the next person, but it always puzzles me when people look at an accident like TWA 800, read some expert opinions from some outside expert source that contradicts the conclusions of those that actually performed the investigation, and believe the theorists instead. The NTSB is an incredible organization filled with smart, driven people whose only desire is to get at the truth and prevent loss of life. As I posted earlier, they are warriors for the truth, and we are all well served by them. Being a Human/Factors and Safety Systems guy, I again, tend to take it more personally than I should when somebody suggests that people as fine as those that make up the NTSB, would lie, obfuscate and falsify their work for any reason at all. They simply could not. Of course at the end of the day, it is a probable cause,

Well, that's it in as small a nutshell as I can make it. My sincere apologies to anybody I harangued, offended or otherwise beat up. It sure is fun to have a pissin' and moanin' internet fight isn't it?

 

[Annie]

Dear LJDRVR:

Like you, I once loved an industry. I loved it soo much that I could not see when it was vulnerable.

I once believed that NO university accrediting body, would give approval to any academic program, that did not measure up to, or surpass, any curriculum that had established itself as successful. I WAS WRONG! The accrediting agencies that approve our university programs today, are just rubber stamps. I am sorry, but that is FACT. When I look at this situation, as it exists in academia, and I step over to the aviation industry--I wonder how the NTSB has survived the same period of time--untouched? Unruffled by the threats? EACH INVESTIGATOR UNTHREATENED?

 

[FN FAL]

No one doubts that, but by the end of line of 100 people, she is going to have the clap and her eyes would have been gouged out by aliens from Area 51 who were seen mutilating some cows.

don't forget about the black helicopters that were seen following her around that day.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

You may be right, Greg.

I just got back from a two-day and read this whole stinkin' thread over. It occurs to me my demeanor was a bit overzealous. Everybody should believe whatever they like here; I have no desire to change anybody's mind.

Please understand there are two issues with the TWA 800 threads that get me all riled up.

• There seems to be thread of belief that a CWT explosion just couldn't happen. However, I lost my lap-swimming buddy and good friend Rob Wienman in 1989 when the CWT on the KC-135 he was co-piloting exploded at 5000' No fuel, just vapor. Digging through the accident databases reveal CWT issues are nothing new for Boeing. I tend to take it a bit more personally than I should, but Boeing CWT's have been exploding since 1961.

• I distrust my government as much as the next person, but it always puzzles me when people look at an accident like TWA 800, read some expert opinions from some outside expert source that contradicts the conclusions of those that actually performed the investigation, and believe the theorists instead. The NTSB is an incredible organization filled with smart, driven people whose only desire is to get at the truth and prevent loss of life. As I posted earlier, they are warriors for the truth, and we are all well served by them. Being a Human/Factors and Safety Systems guy, I again, tend to take it more personally than I should when somebody suggests that people as fine as those that make up the NTSB, would lie, obfuscate and falsify their work for any reason at all. They simply could not. Of course at the end of the day, it is a probable cause,

Well, that's it in as small a nutshell as I can make it. My sincere apologies to anybody I harangued, offended or otherwise beat up. It sure is fun to have a pissin' and moanin' internet fight isn't it?

I do not doubt that the NTSB is made up of skilled professionals who want to find out the truth. However, they can only determine the "truth" based on the evidence that is made available to them. The bottom line is that evidence was held private by the FBI that could possibly have swayed the NTSB's conclusion on this, such as the shrapnels of metal found in the bodies of the victims. There is absolutely no reason for the FBI to withhold such evidence in a crash unless some sort of criminal activity was involved that they do not wish for the public or the NTSB to know about.

 

[414Flyer]

I do not doubt that the NTSB is made up of skilled professionals who want to find out the truth. However, they can only determine the "truth" based on the evidence that is made available to them. The bottom line is that evidence was held private by the FBI that could possibly have swayed the NTSB's conclusion on this, such as the shrapnels of metal found in the bodies of the victims.

So they did not have access to the remains of the 747 either?? Thats a bit hard to swallow.