Turbine time question

[newmei]

I may have the oppurtunity to fly for a central american carrier that flies Boeing 737's. Its a airline that is fairly small but with a good reputation. State-side wise I have about half the total time required to get on with a major here. None of the turbine time at all and very low multi time. I meet the hiring requirements for this airline and can get the right to work. Even better they are looking for pilots and I know a friend that knows the chief pilot. The question is, is SIC heavy jet time better than regular SIC turbine time like in a BE-1900 or a ERJ? Will a 1000-1500 hours of SIC heavy JET time make me more marketable for a major or a nice commuter airline? In the future will a interviewer not like the fact that I flew for a "foreign" airline.

Thanks

 

[crowbar]

The time will definately not help you get on with a U.S. airline, and it is VERY DANGEROUS SOUTH OF THE BORDER, LOTS OF CRASHES.

What is the contact info so I can send them my resume?

And by the way, a 73 is not a heavy, I believe it falls under the large catagory.

 

[bobbysamd]

Foreign airline experience

I would very seriously consider taking the job. Foreign air carrier experience in equipment such as 737s is regarded as very valuable experience. It would be good turbine time and absolutely will make you marketable. I see no reason why it could be a detriment. If I were you, I would take the job if offered.

Hope that helps. Good luck with your decision.

 

[newmei]

Yea I know its not a "heavy" I suppose it is called large transport category. Nonetheless I'm talking about the difference between a RJ and 737...Is there.

Thanks for your input bobby.

 

[newmei]

"VERY DANGEROUS SOUTH OF THE BORDER, LOTS OF CRASHES."

Hmm.
Yea your right American Airlines in Cali columbia comes to mind.

 

[crowbar]

I suppose you missed the part about you giving the contact info to me so I could take the job.

Possibly I thing maybe I might have been joking about the whole thing just maybe could have been I think .

 

[newmei]

Sorry typing on a message board is'nt as dynamic as talking things slip through the cracks!

 

[Timebuilder]

SIC time in a 737? Yeah, that sounds VERY valuable.

Not only will you end up with a type rating, or at least the knowlege to pass the type ride, but you will have actual time in type as opposed to what many type holders have: a swim in the pool for SWA, and no actual operating experience in the airplane.

I'd go for it. Real turbojet time, real large aircraft expereince, and all in an airline environment using a popular aircraft. Heck, if I was younger I'd be all over that.

 

[Ty Webb]

The only drawback, from an experience/application standpoint, is that most majors (and many regionals/nationals) have PIC requirements that you won't be any closer to meeting.

Usually, the rule of thumb is take the job that gives you the opportunity to get turbine PIC first.

Sounds like fun, though.

 

[newmei]

With a 737 type would I be able to log PIC time? Or is that fishy because I am never actually the PIC even though I hold the type.

 

[crowbar]

Unless you're the captain of the ship, stay away from logging PIC.

If you can get on with a regional and make captain and log some PIC I would do that.

 

[Timebuilder]

I'd steer away from logging PIC any other way than being captain in this situation, but the experience and a LOR might go a long way in getting you into the "next step" that might allow you to be quickly promoted to a position where you were the PIC.

Pros and cons, for sure.

What a happy conundrum for you.

 

[Checks]

crowbar, I hope to see you making more posts on here. I didnt even read this thread because I was so distracted.

 

[350DRIVER]

With a 737 type would I be able to log PIC time? Or is that fishy because I am never actually the PIC even though I hold the type.

The only person that should log this as PIC time is the guy accepting the flight release and signing it. Even with a type do not do not log it as pic time. I would take this job without a second thought if I were you. no brainer


3 5 0

 

[bobbysamd]

Logging PIC

With a 737 type would I be able to log PIC time? Or is that fishy because I am never actually the PIC even though I hold the type.

No. Even with the type, you cannot log PIC time unless you are the actual captain of the airplane and have signed-out the airplane.

Just the same, the multi-turbine-air carrier time will be valuable. The fact that you built it with a foreign airline will make for an interesting conversation point during interviews. Interesting conversation points oftentimes make for bonding between interviewer and interviewee. Bonding between interviewer and interviewee oftentimes lead to jobs.

Once more, good luck with your decision.

 

[Timebuilder]

Unnnngh. Tonto say, "Bonding, good."

 

[typhoonpilot]

My question would be, " what are the chances of you making captain at this airline ? " If your dream is to fly for a major, or large LCC in the States then you need the PIC time ( usually 1000 PIC turbine ) to be considered.

The SIC time in a 737 is definitely better than SIC time in an RJ or Beech 1900, especially if you are with a foreign operator doing NDB approaches circling to land in the jungle at night. It will make you one heck of a good pilot, or kill you ( that's actually a serious statement ).

What is the pay like ? What are the working conditions like ? How good looking are the flight attendants ? These are important questions as well. If you end up stuck there and not able to get on with a U.S. regional or LCC then how will you feel ?

Do they have a training contract or make you sign a bond ? Can you leave there with a good recommendation towards Southwest or some other airline in a few years time ? In other words, how do they feel about being used as a stepping stone ?

Do you know that Fedex now requires five consecutive years of residence in the United States immediately prior to joining to be eligible for employment now ( that probably doesn't apply to military guys )?

Lots of considerations. My take would be that if they have a decent upgrade policy and it looks like it could happen in a two to four year time frame then go for it. If you really want a career in the States then you need the PIC time that a regional can offer you in that same time frame.

Typhoonpilot

 

[apdsm]

Go where you are going to the most PIC turbine time!

 

[newmei]

Thanks for all the input guys.
Its gonna be a tough one when it comes time to decide, I have plenty of time for now though.

THanks

 

[AAsRedHeadedbro]

I'd say go for it if you can. The foreign experience will be valuable.

On a side not - Typhoon pilot, why exactly is B-737 sic experience considered any more valuable than RJ sic? I don't get it. Both are part 121 operated transport category turbofan aircraft with all of the associated complexities. Both use about the same takeoff and landing speeds. They have about equal performance in terms of cruise speed (M.78 cruise for the RJ's, M.80 for the 737-600/700/800/900, M.75 for the older 737's), cruise altitude and service ceiling. The RJ's are all glass with FMS. They both use Jetbridges and stairs depending on the needs of the operator. They both have flight attendants to deal with.

Is it because of weight? A 737 is roughly 3 times the weight of a RJ. However, a 747 weighs almost 6 times as much as a 737. Does that make a 737 pilot less qualified to pilot a 747? I don't think so.

So again, why the idea that 737 experience is somehow better than RJ experience? If it's simply to gain experience in a type of aircraft that your target major uses, then fine. I can buy that.

 

[bobbysamd]

Decisions . . .

Its gonna be a tough one when it comes time to decide, I have plenty of time for now though.

Keep us updated on your decision, which, I hope, will be to take the job, and how it works out.

Good luck!

 

[typhoonpilot]

On a side not - Typhoon pilot, why exactly is B-737 sic experience considered any more valuable than RJ sic?

I'll answer, but I don't want this thread to turn into something else so lets just leave it after this. The comment was in regards to what airlines that I have experience with would like to see. In other words what makes a person competitive for certain airlines. My present airline doesn't give RJ pilots the time of day, they want guys with time in aircraft over 55,000 Kilograms. With 3000 hours of 737 SIC time one would have a serious shot at my airline but with 3000 hours of RJ PIC time they wouldn't pay attention. Not my rules and not how I would do it, but that is how it is. I've tried very hard to help a friend with over 10,000 total hours and lots of RJ PIC and check airman time get an interview and they just don't invite him.

So my comments in response to the original question stand. For someone wanting a career in the States the RJ PIC time is more valuable but if I had to choose over RJ SIC and 737 SIC I woud choose 737 SIC anyday of the week because it will open more doors.

Typhoonpilot

 

[Kingairrick]

On a side not - Typhoon pilot, why exactly is B-737 sic experience considered any more valuable than RJ sic?

Because chicks will say; "Oh, you stil fly the little ones?" If you're in the RJ.

 

[Pickle]

I got hired at my present job for probably two reasons. One, an OUTSTANDING internal recommendation. Two, about 3000 hours of international experience in a 727. I think the rec got me the interview, and I (and my flight time) got me the job offer. Yes, PIC is very very important, but SIC in a large jet doing some challenging things is pretty good time too. Vaya con Dios, amigo!!

 

[Pickle]

One other thing.....

newmei asked: "With a 737 type would I be able to log PIC time? Or is that fishy because I am never actually the PIC even though I hold the type."

No way. Don't log PIC unless you are actually the captain. Sole manipulator doesn't count here. I am typed on the 757 but am only a lowly FO, so I can't log PIC. Heck, even on a flight with an IO (relief pilot, movie critic, eater, etc) in the left seat and the captain sleeping in the back only one person gets to log PIC, and it isn't either of the ones awake in the cockpit.

 

[AAsRedHeadedbro]

Thank you for the answer, Typhoon.

 

[Los]

Hi MEI,

congrats on your job offer. I hope you take it and are happy with it. Send me a PM if you can. I would like to know more details about this activity.

What kind of pay?
I am sure that the low cost of living will offset any low salary they offer you, however will you be able to save up enough to make a move back to the US.

Any possibility of a Commute?
ie low cost tickets via interline agreements and schedule that would make it feasible to come back like two weeks on week off, etc.

Like everyone else has mentioned and from your own CFI experience you sould reference that the pilot at the controls PIC time is an FAA definition and applies toward seeking ratings however companies evalaute it very differently. Some companies choose to hire F-16 and AV-8 Harrier pilots when neither aircraft is heavy nor multi, it is just the 'quality' of the flight time as most of the guys who flew these and got Airline jobs
told me.

As soon as I got my commercial I canvased several foreign carriers because I knew most of them had Ab-Intio training and hired pilots with lower times. What I found through talking with large numbers of pilots, researching, and word of mouth is listed below.

Venezuela
currently lots of political unrest due to Chavez, same thing happened with him in early 90s, climate could change rapidly forcing you to evacuate and leave you job.
1) Avensa - primeire airliner in country, intl flights, inroads via Venezuelan AF
2) VIASA - in and out of bankruptcy could be desperate for pilots but not a sure thing
3) AEROPOSTAL - ditto above
4) LASER - met several foreign pilots, not sure how they got in though

Columbia
play at your own risk, long standing civil war and gurillas find Americans a tasty ransom

1) AVIANCA - met an guy who claimed he was offered a job after meeting Chief of Pilots or someone ranking in the company while they were doing re-current training in US
2) ACES - met two french (or candian) and three german pilots working here.
3) Alianza - web site and contact info for this company was not updated, stoped my search there.

Panama
Better enviroment than most areas in region due to their climitization of Americans and US culture from the long occupation of last century.

COPA - All the pilots I met from this company were Panamanians, old, and were tight-lipped about how to get into the company, sort of the Capts at the US Majors.

GRUPO TACA - The first three pilots I met from this company had all flown for Mexican AF.

CHILE - Stable culture , cold climate.
Lan Chile - met an American pilot who wokred for Lan Chile and kept a house in the US. He was retired military pilot and his wife was Chilean who also had a brother working for the company. I figure this guy was not strapped for cash and benifited from his family relationship, along with the military experience he had.

BWIA - stingy, look elswhere

AirJam - need to be a Jamaican citizen

EUROPE
Both EAST and WEST block countries all EXPORT pilots (most with military experinece), they never IMPORT, especially Americans, didn't have to look long to find this out.

Africa
Met a guy whose dad flew for a company in Saudi Arabia and made a ton of cash. I looked up some ads I found in different places looking for Capts to fly with their homegrown FOs, this seemed odd since it is the opposite of what most other countries were looking for.

FAR EAST REGION
Decent pay (pilot salary in US $$) is quickley neutralized by high cost of living. Can be extremely inconvenient if you dont have a background in ASIAN culture or at least willing to take on a rapid learning and understanding of it. Perks are extremely low crime rate. Another negative so I have heard is that you will need to spend full contract time in country no opportunity to commute or visit home.

Singapore - met Americans and Britans who worked for the company but came up with dead ends trying to follow their links.

JAL/JAL STORY - Ab Intio (had) hefty premiums and good recommendations and other stringent requirements needed to get your foot in the door. Also less desireable benifits regarding
time off, travel opportunity to visit home.

All Nippon Airway (ANA) - Same as above in a different wrapper.

AUSTRALIA
If I remeber correct you need to be a citizen to fly for hire there, also need to convert licenses and Communication lingo to fly with success. met several guys both aviation and non-avaiation who migrated there with no regrets, they say the place is heaven on earth, and a low cost of liveing to boot.