Trickle down economics and the airlines

[fastback]

Hahaha, the rich "create jobs". That's a good one. Your reasoning is just a result of you being scammed by trickle down economics. The rich do not want to create jobs. They want to maximize profits.

If McCain takes over, he will wage war on the middle class and pretty much destroy it. There will only be rich and poor in the US. And when the economy gets to be so bad that know one can afford to spend, the rich "job creators" won't be able to create any jobs because there will be no one able to spend money on their product.

I mean, I can completely understand supporting McCain if that person was a multimillionaire and/or financially independent for life. But for middle class workers like airline pilots to support McCain, someone who has spit in the face of the profession, and vote against someone like Obama who is fighting for you and other hard working, motivated middle class americans is beyond me. People have the nerve to think Obama is fighting for unmotivated poor bums. No, Obama is fight for everyone on this board making less than 250k. Airline pay has been going down and Airline CEO pay has been going up.

But anyways it looks like most Americans have been paying attention to what happened the last four years and have come to the conclusion that we CANNOT afford 4 more years of George Bush type foolishness.

George Bush and John McCain are out of ideas, they are out of touch, and if you stand with me, in 17 days they'll be out of time-Obama.

You must work at a job created by a poor person.

 

[Smacktard]

You must work at a job created by a poor person.

Don't even bother, he's a Twenty something wunderkid fresh out of school, full of naive, pie-in-sky idealism and the best stick ASA has. I already asked him how many jobs he created this week and I haven't gotten the answer. He's been so abused by the greedy rich that he's already formed the answer to capitalism. If you stand with him, you'll find out what it is...

 

[heywatchthis]

"I"

Did you ever notice how many times Obama says the word "I" when he gives a speech?

I guess he will fix everything. Just let Obama and the FED government solve all your problems. Give the FEDs all your money because the bigger the government the better they can fix everything.

RIGHT?

 

[Deadalus]

The old disparity argument. Care to back it up with some facts? Show us please the census or income data that shows more people moving up into the top tax bracket and people in the middle moving down the brackets, this I would love to see.

Are you really that stupid? Do an internet search on the middle class dissappearing and you'll get articles and data up the ying yang. Don't forget the top 1% used to pay an income tax of 70%, now it is less than 30%. Say you're someone like my grandfather that makes millions a year, if you're taxed at 70% you still have over a million left over. That's hardly making things equal(communist=bad). He doesn't pay 70% though, in fact with all the tax breaks from the 80's change in tax codes he pays about 10%. I've got news for you, the wealthy love you're ignorance. Can you say, "Baaaahhhhh"?

 

[777forever]

Don't even bother, he's a Twenty something wunderkid fresh out of school, full of naive, pie-in-sky idealism and the best stick ASA has. I already asked him how many jobs he created this week and I haven't gotten the answer. He's been so abused by the greedy rich that he's already formed the answer to capitalism. If you stand with him, you'll find out what it is...

I create plenty of jobs with my spending. With the middle class spending, this opens up more jobs because of more business. Without this business, there is absolutely no need to create new jobs.

Under McCain's tax plan corporations like the airlines will get a tax break. The middle class not so much. That means demand for air travel will stay the same or go down.

Do you think the airlines since they have more money due to tax breaks will create more jobs with demand remaining the same or decreasing?

Now if the middle class gets a tax break and can actually afford air travel increasing demand, don't you think that is a better indication of job creation?

But nah, don't listen to me, keep on believing McCain and his "prosperity trickles down" jibberish that has been proven over and over not to work due to an overlooked human element, GREED.

Look for a landslide win for Obama on the 4th. And once again, I don't want to hear it when you get a bigger check in the mail.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I can tell you as someone who has experience as a small business owner. Trickle Down Economic works. I was planning on expanding this business, but with the higher taxes that are almost a reality, I am going to do nothing of the sort.
Just watch as you see millions of people hit the street when their tax liability increases. It is a fact of life.

 

[Smacktard]

I create plenty of jobs with my spending. With the middle class spending, this opens up more jobs because of more business. Without this business, there is absolutely no need to create new jobs.

Under McCain's tax plan corporations like the airlines will get a tax break. The middle class not so much. That means demand for air travel will stay the same or go down.

Do you think the airlines since they have more money due to tax breaks will create more jobs with demand remaining the same or decreasing?

Before I rant, know this, the first money spent, on anything, a new business, a new airport, a new railroad etc is spent hiring people to do the work. So which comes first, the business man creating the business or the consumer spending the money at the man's business?

On to the main point. Who do think pays the taxes when the government increases corporate tax rates? The business or the consumer?

The left loves to think of the economy as a simple system in a vacuum; make one change here, and only that value changes. What actually happens to a company when faced with increased taxes is that, get ready, they pass the costs along to the consumer. Hhuuuhh, say it ain't so? And the consumer will change their habits.

Under Bush, with those evil tax cuts, we are at the highest level we have ever achieved with regard to personal and business tax revenues as a percentage of GDP. Higher than in the Clinton years. Higher tax rates return lower revenus. It's a very simple concept. Currently, both individual and corporate tax rates are achiving what is very hard to balance, collecting record revenue without adversly affecting the revenue stream.

Return to higher tax rates and this record revenue will go down. And with it goes all of the new spending to help achieve 'Economic Justice', that is Obama's newly reveiled phrase, right?

Now if the middle class gets a tax break and can actually afford air travel increasing demand, don't you think that is a better indication of job creation?

But nah, don't listen to me, keep on believing McCain and his "prosperity trickles down" jibberish that has been proven over and over not to work due to an overlooked human element, GREED.

You did miss Econ 101, capitalism in any form is 'trickle down'. That's the way wealth and a monetary system work. In a vacuum, with perfect compition and moral men, it would work well with little government intervention. But obviously that's the not the environment we live in. Yes, government regulation is necessary but hang on Sally, not by taking from those that have achieved and giving to those that haven't. Grab your little slogans and go save the world, only leave this place alone because it's worked better here than ANYWHERE else in the planet's history.

Look for a landslide win for Obama on the 4th. And once again, I don't want to hear it when you get a bigger check in the mail.

I'll be sure to check my pay stubs, can't wait for this 'free' money! How close are you to the bottom btw?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I can tell you as someone who has experience as a small business owner. Trickle Down Economic works. I was planning on expanding this business, but with the higher taxes that are almost a reality, I am going to do nothing of the sort.
Just watch as you see millions of people hit the street when their tax liability increases. It is a fact of life.

Would you be able to even start that business if it were not for your unionized paycheck and days off each month?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Increase wages..... oh the horror!!!!

 

[antix12]

Funny how nobody bashes Microsoft for being successful or Bill Gates for being one of the richest men in the world. Yet, everyone is so quick to bash "Big Oil", and the unnamed CEO's that work for those companies for their extreme profits. Give me an iPod and iTunes and I'll be happy. Make me participate in a world economy coupled with crazy speculation about oil prices and I'm gonna get pissed. Yeah, that's long-term planning.

I don't have the exact numbers since this is just a quick reply to your post, but from what I understand Bill Gates would by far be the richest person in the history of the world had he not given away so much of his money and donated it through the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation. He has personally donated billions of dollars. The people in charge in the oil industry are a whole different breed from the people in the tech industry. Most of the people who made it big in the 80's and 90's with the tech boom are very big philanthropists and are trying to use their wealth to help better the world.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I had the business before I was a pilot.

 

[Dan Roman]

Trickle down works when the money stays in the country, but that isn't the case anymore.

Our GDP is collapsing and the money that once flowed to the American house holds now goes abroad. We are exporting our wealth at an alarming rate.

It is time to stimulate the base, spend on domestic projects to electrify our economy. But most important of all that I think the generations below me do not understand; we have got to improve our standing on the global stage. Powell nailed it, the Republican base does not understand the new age of thinking, it is time for a new idealogy to get this country running again.

I am 57 years old, I have never voted for a Democrat but I am about to because we are in trouble, serious trouble.

This sums it up nicely but seemed to get lost in the mudslinging.
It's time the people who buy the airline tickets get a break and not the execs, who sometimes do create jobs with the tax breaks but more often seem to pocket the money for themselves and the shareholders.

 

[777forever]

Most of the people who made it big in the 80's and 90's with the tech boom are very big philanthropists and are trying to use their wealth to help better the world.

Unlike the majority of the Republican party...

 

[Mr.B]

Trickle down economics is a scam cover up for the true intention of greed.

When businesses cut jobs or wages following a downturn they are not giddy to increase costs as soon as they start making money.

McCain wants to help his corporate buddies get richer at the expense of the middle class, the true people that make the whole economy turn.

McSame, No Millionaire left behind, etc...the list goes on.

There's nothing wrong with being rich and achieving the American dream. But when you start using unethical tactics to take more away from those that work hard to pad your already fat pockets there is something very wrong with that.

United's managment is making MUCH more than CEOs at the most profitable airlines in the world like Singapore and Cathay. That is flat out wrong.

The US corporate system is completely corrupt and filled with greed. People in this country are getting sick of it. Its time for a change.

Indeed.... Well said.

 

[airksk]

Unlike the majority of the Republican party...

Do you have any data to back that up?

http://philanthropy.com/free/articles/v19/i04/04001101.htm

In Who Really Cares: The Surprising Truth About Compassionate Conservatism (Basic Books), Arthur C. Brooks finds that religious conservatives are far more charitable than secular liberals, and that those who support the idea that government should redistribute income are among the least likely to dig into their own wallets to help others.


Gee what a surprise. Democrats are very willing to give away MY money, not their own.

 

[milky]

Your right that it isn't simple. We could go back and forth all day cherry picking whatever we think supports any position you want to take. Talking about money is especially emotional for some.
I just think it's a good idea to try and spur the economy by putting more money in the pockets of the consumers and not trying to make a few very rich and hope they will create jobs. There is a LOT of greed and self serving behavior in the upper income brackets. The whole world is paying for it.

No offense, but as I read through this thread and others that you have posted in, I see that you are completely ignorant of how the economy works. It's pretty scary. It makes me really scared for our country that there are idiots like you out there that think you are more intelligent than the rest of us. I'm truly scared and worried. Educate yourself please. You look like a fool.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

No offense, but as I read through this thread and others that you have posted in, I see that you are completely ignorant of how the economy works. It's pretty scary. It makes me really scared for our country that there are idiots like you out there that think you are more intelligent than the rest of us. I'm truly scared and worried. Educate yourself please. You look like a fool.

Hey its Milky... the academic....

Have you read a newspaper lately... Seen Alan Greenspan?

 

[Jetjockey]

Here is some straight talk for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEtZlR3zp4c&feature=related

 

[Dan Roman]

No offense, but as I read through this thread and others that you have posted in, I see that you are completely ignorant of how the economy works. It's pretty scary. It makes me really scared for our country that there are idiots like you out there that think you are more intelligent than the rest of us. I'm truly scared and worried. Educate yourself please. You look like a fool.

Thank you! I'm flattered my posts stand out. I have to wonder why you think I think I'm smarter than anyone else here. I just post my opinions like anyone else, my belief is that's how a forum should work. Everyone post's their beliefs as best they can and we are all adult enough to make up our own minds. But if it sounds like I think I'm smarter than anyone else, my apologies, it's my writing skills that are lacking. I really don't think I'm an economic genius. But I am a registered voter, so the discussions here are important and relevant. That said Obama and the team they have assembled ARE smarter than you and I combined, so I trust what they have to say.
Seems to me plenty of other people agree with my basic premise that trickle down economics has it's flaws and perhaps it's time to start giving the tax breaks to the people buying the airline tickets to spur the economy rather than depending on the companies to "trickle down the savings" to the consumer. It don't all trickle down dude.

 

[Smacktard]

Unlike the majority of the Republican party...

I think you meant unlike the Democrats. Look at Obama's recent tax filings for a hint there...