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Trans States Classes

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super80steve

New member
Joined
Dec 2, 2002
Posts
3
anybody know anything about when more new hire classes will begin for trans States and what airplanes will be trained on? Also is there any possibility of the sale of 14 ERJ's to trans states being blocked?
 
TSA has 51 planes coming next year. They need a LOT of pilots. Now. This more than doubles the size of the company/pilot group and with many FOs lacking time to upgrade street captains in the very near term are all but certain. They have classes ongoing now, are hiring/interviewing now. Spread the word
 
Why would you do street captains and not upgrade your FOs? Because your FO's don't have the time for ATP? Oh wait...
 
Theoden said:
Why would you do street captains and not upgrade your FOs? Because your FO's don't have the time for ATP? Oh wait...
Click to expand...

they would prefer to upgrade FOs, they all have ATP mins to even get hired but lack the total time and 121/135 time required to be captain and it takes a new hire FO maybe a couple years +/- to get the required time. TSA needs a LOT of pilots NOW to staff these 51 planes coming that more than doubles the size of the company. hence CQFOs for guys that want 121-PIC to move up and out. or not. Good to be on the front side of a growth curve
 
tjsatter said:
...they would prefer to upgrade FOs, they all have ATP mins to even get hired but lack the total time and 121/135 time required to be captain and it takes a new hire FO maybe a couple years +/- to get the required time.
Click to expand...

TSA has a seniority list, right ? And they'd prefer to upgrade their current FOs in accordance with that seniority list ?

So, will these new hybrid FO-Caps go on the list as they're hired according to seniority ?

What happens to these folks promised a captain spot (of sorts) when the current FOs get the time to upgrade...and upgrade ? Move backward to FO territory iaw their seniority ?

I suppose it's hard to solve a puzzle with so many moving pieces...airplanes coming, people leaving...
 
tjsatter said:
they would prefer to upgrade FOs, they all have ATP mins to even get hired but lack the total time and 121/135 time required to be captain and it takes a new hire FO maybe a couple years +/- to get the required time. TSA needs a LOT of pilots NOW to staff these 51 planes coming that more than doubles the size of the company. hence CQFOs for guys that want 121-PIC to move up and out. or not. Good to be on the front side of a growth curve
Click to expand...


The only other requirement other than having an ATP is 1,000 in any 121 or 135 operation. If I was an FO at TSA, I would be pissed about these artificial requirements. The only reason they are offering CQFOs is because otherwise they know pilots will not go there. Hopefully the xjt guys don't go there.
 
Nevets said:
The only other requirement other than having an ATP is 1,000 in any 121 or 135 operation. If I was an FO at TSA, I would be pissed about these artificial requirements. The only reason they are offering CQFOs is because otherwise they know pilots will not go there. Hopefully the xjt guys don't go there.
Click to expand...

the requirements for 1000 121/135 are FAA mandate. TSA cannot waive that regardless. The FOs we have know that and are not pissed, just hoping to get the time they need soonest as upgrades are so quick, now. They are offering CQFOs to FNGs because they need FOS AND Captains. NOW. Guys will come or not according to their own needs. it's a good deal if you want the 121 PIC time and are looking at a long upgrade time
 
bafanguy said:
TSA has a seniority list, right ? And they'd prefer to upgrade their current FOs in accordance with that seniority list ?

So, will these new hybrid FO-Caps go on the list as they're hired according to seniority ?

What happens to these folks promised a captain spot (of sorts) when the current FOs get the time to upgrade...and upgrade ? Move backward to FO territory iaw their seniority ?

I suppose it's hard to solve a puzzle with so many moving pieces...airplanes coming, people leaving...
Click to expand...

Yes, there is a seniority list, of course, but even if they upgraded ALL the FOs on that list NOW they would still be short Captains AND FOs. and nevermind that maybe 50% of the FOs here now (more?) lack the time to be a 121 PIC per FAA requirements, not company. and yes, the CQFOs go on the listper DOH and become regular captains as they accrue the needed seniority, etc. this is a limited time narrow window for guys to get time in the left seat. I've heard they are looking for 200 CQFO types now as well as 300+ FOs. I honestly don't know where they are gonna get all the bodies they need but it's a real opportunity for thos able to move on it. The
 
Well, this is gettin' to be fun to watch. :laugh:
 
Be on reserve indefinitely in BOTH seats. That's not brutal.
 
So, what's the forecast for this TSA CQFO program ? Attract lots of people or fall flat ?
 
tjsatter said:
the requirements for 1000 121/135 are FAA mandate. TSA cannot waive that regardless. The FOs we have know that and are not pissed, just hoping to get the time they need soonest as upgrades are so quick, now. They are offering CQFOs to FNGs because they need FOS AND Captains. NOW. Guys will come or not according to their own needs. it's a good deal if you want the 121 PIC time and are looking at a long upgrade time
Click to expand...


That was my only point. Your company is setting artificial minimums when the only one that is mandated by the FAA is 1,000 hours of previous 121/135 time. That's a really good way to piss off FOs that otherwise meet faa minimums to be captain.
 
I see it as a way to get FOs and fill in as CA only when minimally necessary. Think about it, nobody wants to go there as an FO so they offer this program. Now they have new qualified FOs that are told they may get some PIC. Anybody would be foolish to consider this. Captain is one thing, but this two seat deal really lowered the bar.
 
This is CQFO part II. This was done in the early 2000's as well.Lots of guys where flying as Captain.
 
screamingpax said:
I see it as a way to get FOs and fill in as CA only when minimally necessary. Think about it, nobody wants to go there as an FO so they offer this program. Now they have new qualified FOs that are told they may get some PIC. Anybody would be foolish to consider this. Captain is one thing, but this two seat deal really lowered the bar.
Click to expand...


It's been said that they will need more captains than there are FOs on the seniority list. To me it looks like a way to pay the pilot in the captain seat first year pay rather than the upgraded FO 3+year pay while at the same time being circumvented on the list.
 
Nevets said:
It's been said that they will need more captains than there are FOs on the seniority list. To me it looks like a way to pay the pilot in the captain seat first year pay rather than the upgraded FO 3+year pay while at the same time being circumvented on the list.
Click to expand...

yeah and it's a way to get a lot more than your standard FO when working that seat
 
Nevets said:
That was my only point. Your company is setting artificial minimums when the only one that is mandated by the FAA is 1,000 hours of previous 121/135 time. That's a really good way to piss off FOs that otherwise meet faa minimums to be captain.
Click to expand...

well, insurance companies are involved as well. Those details are not open to me. Total time required is 3500. it's a simple calculus really; got the time get upgraded. the company does not have a lot of flexibility to reduce these hours much. I'm aware of 3 year FOs on property that lack the times needed. When they do get the time they will upgrade and likely skip the reserve part as they then jump ahead of all those junior Captains that do have the time

reread the OP; Not aware that a "sale" of planes per se is what's involved here. I think it's more a transfer of leases (?) some kind of high-finace shenanigans not sure that there's anything there that could be blocked
 
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tjsatter said:
yeah and it's a way to get a lot more than your standard FO when working that seat
Click to expand...


Then it must speak volumes of the quality of FOs on property.

tjsatter said:
well, insurance companies are involved as well. Those details are not open to me. Total time required is 3500. it's a simple calculus really; got the time get upgraded. the company does not have a lot of flexibility to reduce these hours much. I'm aware of 3 year FOs on property that lack the times needed. When they do get the time they will upgrade and likely skip the reserve part as they then jump ahead of all those junior Captains that do have the time



reread the OP; Not aware that a "sale" of planes per se is what's involved here. I think it's more a transfer of leases (?) some kind of high-finace shenanigans not sure that there's anything there that could be blocked
Click to expand...


No such insurance requirements at xjt. Why would an insurance company see TSA pilots as more of a risk?

Anyway, I'm not sure what you are trying to say on your second paragraph as it relates to artificial upgrade minimums.
 
wms said:
Be on reserve indefinitely in BOTH seats. That's not brutal.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't think reserve would last more than a year (which is tough, don't get me wrong). But they are going to more than double their fleet, which should get a new Captain a line near the end of their growth.
 
Nevets said:
Then it must speak volumes of the quality of FOs on property.




No such insurance requirements at xjt. Why would an insurance company see TSA pilots as more of a risk?

Anyway, I'm not sure what you are trying to say on your second paragraph as it relates to artificial upgrade minimums.
Click to expand...


Many airlines have stipulations regarding "insurance minimums" - XJT is likely the exception rather than the rule. My previous carrier did, it was in the FOM - and that was even when it was a wholly owned subsidiary of NW/DL.
 
Nevets said:
No such insurance requirements at xjt.
Click to expand...

We self insure from what I know which means we can do what we want.

TSA insures through a 3rd party. If their insurance mandates the total time requirement, no way to get around that. TSA does have a 2:1 allowance up to a certain amount when time is flown in TSA planes. This reduces the 3500 hours TT requirement for those on property already.
 
Current FOs here are not upset over the CQFO because they do not have the time to upgrade. The company will hire enough CQFOs to make sure they have enough people qualified to upgrade. No FOs will get bypassed. As they get the minimums they will upgrade. End state will have All the FOs on property now plus the CQFOs upgraded when all the aircraft arrive. We have two full classes of CQFOs this month, and have already filed a class for next month. Plenty of Expressjet (sorry Nevets), Envoy, Republic and Endeavor guys filling the classes.

The main factor driving this is the donut hole on the TSA seniority list. There are four guys on the list from 9/2007-4/2012 (one is the DO). Many of the low timers hired in 2012 still have a ways to go to have the time for upgrade, and many hired in 2013 and 14 are still working on total time and the 1000 hours of 121 time.

Don't listen to Nevets. He's been completely discredited on other message boards. CQFO is a good opportunity for those that have the qualifications to upgrade but have a long wait in their present postion. Nevets is on a personal crusade against Trans States and facts are optional for him. He knows nothing about the company or our contract even though he spouts off like he does.

CQFOs will have the ability to bid for Captain just like anybody else when they finish training. Those who get in early will likely get bids to Captain quickly as Trans States has many FOs that do not meet requirements. Most recent upgrade class had 2/13 hires.
 
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Nevets said:
It's been said that they will need more captains than there are FOs on the seniority list. To me it looks like a way to pay the pilot in the captain seat first year pay rather than the upgraded FO 3+year pay while at the same time being circumvented on the list.
Click to expand...

You know this is crap Nevets. No one is getting bypassed that is qualified.
 

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