Tranny ALPA MEC - Dragging their feet

[PCL_128]

We now have 800+ new captains that, in essence, got hired off the street.

Really? Did Delta get 3,000 street captains when they purchased NWA? Ridiculous. Those captain seats are coming with our airplanes. They don't belong to you, and you aren't owed them.

 

[JT12345]

Now that I had time to play with my kids and the train set, and got to relax some; apprecaite what is really important I just want to correct somethings...

A junior reserve SWA Capt does not make 70K more than a Senior line holder SWA FO. I have been told 10-20k more.

As for off the street.... the pilots are bringing the airplanes with them. It is not the same thing.

Off the street is when the airplanes were coming from the yellow pages or the factory usually brand new. The FOs are too inexperienced to qualify for the insurance to fly them or the management wants them to have more experience. Obviously the SWAFOs have the exp.

More snake oil.

 

[JT12345]

Tell u what.... give AAI relative senority. That way our Captains keep their seats.... we dont need a fence for them then. The company saves training costs avoiding a shuffle and they don't have to pay the 1.25 to FOs flying with junior Captains.

And fence me out of the left seat for the 8-9 years unless our respective SWA/AAI DOH allows it sooner.

I get a slight bump in senority. You guys barely see it because u are 3 times bigger with 7 bases. You still upgrade ahead of me because I am fenced out... probably

Same deal as you got but opposite. Only it is less effective to senority percentage change wise on both sides.

 

[Flycatcher99]

A junior reserve SWA Capt does not make 70K more than a Senior line holder SWA FO. I have been told 10-20k more.

Who told you that? Did they also tell you that a SWA Captains makes $60/trip more than an FO? How does that only add up to $10-20k more? Simple math here: multiply 100 trips times $60 times 12 months, and tell me what you come up with. Yes, some FOs do better by picking up open flying as their seniority allows, but that means that (duhhh) they're working more days to earn more money.

As for off the street.... the pilots are bringing the airplanes with them. It is not the same thing.

Off the street is when the airplanes were coming from the yellow pages or the factory usually brand new. The FOs are too inexperienced to qualify for the insurance to fly them or the management wants them to have more experience. Obviously the SWAFOs have the exp.

More snake oil.

Okay, what part of "growth by acquisition" versus "organic growth" do you not understand? Yes, we are growing more by acquisition than we would have organically, I will grant you that. But you want us to think we would not have grown at all organically over the next 10 years. Not likely, if at all possible. The realistic, albeit small, amount of organic growth I would have seen would have brought me closer to upgrading than this deal will. Period.

Thus, for SWA FOs, this deal is comparable to hiring street captains. Do they bring airplanes? Yes, but they bring more pilots than we will end up needing for the airplanes they're bringing, due to shrinkage of the manning model (12.7 pilots/AC for AAI vs. 10.5 pilots/AC for SWA), reduction of stations we will serve (they just announced the first four this week), and pull-back due to economic uncertainties (announced by GK today).

 

[doer42]

Mr Kelly will have to deal with 6000 REALLY PO'd SWA Pilots and 1700 overjoyed AAI pilots...

Would you or anyone really be that mad if you got only a 10% bump in seniority vs a 20+% bump overnight on the backs of the trannies? Think how long it took to get every 10% increase prior to this. Think of this only in terms of the deal you are getting not what someone else is, i.e. their pay raise. Just a question.

 

[JT12345]

Yes, but they bring more pilots than we will end up needing for the airplanes they're bringing, due to shrinkage of the manning model (12.7 pilots/AC for AAI vs. 10.5 pilots/AC for SWA), reduction of stations we will serve (they just announced the first four this week), and pull-back due to economic uncertainties (announced by GK today).

You heard first from a SWA pilot.

For the junior AAI Captains. You thought the plan was to grow outta the fences and senority lapses when in reality they are hinting at reductions.

Reductions means the fence can't help you from what I hear. Only senority can.

 

[redflyer65]

JT,

This is a done deal buddy. I was pissed when I first saw it. I don't like all the things that all the other SW pilots don't like..

the big ones are, 815 CA seat locks, 1:1 furlough off the bottom (where in history has anyone furloughed out of seniority order), no equity stake for the SW pilots (has nothing to do with the AAI guys), and not pay protecting the senior FO's.

I'm starting to realize that despite all that I list above, this deal is the best that both sides could come up with. Arbitration? I'm not afraid of it what-so-ever because the gains on a blank sheet of paper are all yours.

These two things that would mostly come out of an arbitrated decision..

1-AAI captains keep their seats with fences
2- Most AAI FO's are on the bottom.

So the big question is.... where is the difference? Plus we get to negotiate together on the other items...717 pay, CBA transition, etc.

RF

 

[Lear70]

2- Most AAI FO's are on the bottom.

Our attorneys disagree with that one. Most scenarios that mirror recent arbitration decisions of close to relative seniority, then adjusting slightly for pay rate differences and adjust more heavily for retirements being heavily weighted on the SWA side come pretty close to a Date of Hire solution for our F/O's, which is a 12-18% loss of relative seniority, but better than the 26-34% this deal gives them.

Your attorneys may be saying something different, but all we can go by is the counsel we are being given which doesn't say anything close to "most AAI F/O's are on the bottom".

Just so you understand where JT and others are coming from.

 

[redflyer65]

Fair enough Lear, that's an awfully big dice for you guys to roll if you decide to. And make no mistake, there is a downside almost immediately in doing so. Absolutely no threats, most of if was guaranteed from GK, not SWAPA. That's a tough call if it gets out of the MEC. I'm with you though, I think it makes it to the pilot group and passes. I'm not smart enough to guess percentages.

Another small point, with an arbitor's decision.. it might come with different fences as well. Possibly more onerous for one side than the other. We'll see.

RF

 

[Empennage]

Same deal as you got but opposite. Only it is less effective to senority percentage change wise on both sides.

Now that right there is funny.