Training problems for AA flowbacks

[I.P. Freley]

Is it safe to assume that these guys/gals from AA haven't flown in a while? Sure, it's "just like riding a bike" and all, but seriously, it's tough to get right back into it after being on the street for six months. Or 16 months, or 26 months, for all I know.

My first sim ride in the Saab at my company was my first time "flying" in seven or eight months, and I'll tell ya, it wasn't easy for the first two sessions.

I feel for these guys, going from zero time in type to a type rating in a week is no walk in the park after you've been out of the swing of things for a while.

As for the "psych" thing, what's to say these individuals didn't come from regionals and already KNOW what regional, errr, "major" (in the case of Eagle) life is like?

 

[SF3CA]

Buddy of mine said that one guy busted for pushing back with the GPU connected.

 

[Networ-King]

Buddy of mine said that one guy busted for pushing back with the GPU connected.

UUMMMMMM..... yeeeaaaahhhh...... I got nothing!!!!!!

 

[eaglefly]

I'm sure the overwhelming majority of these individuals can make it thru training with enough training.

The real question is then, what happens when they hit the line unsupervised.

RWY 28 at TVC at BKN 003 1/2 BLSN+ 34015G21 breaking action fair at midnight on a 14 hour day is a lousy place to find out.

For the sake of the future of my job anyway, I hope this all works out.

Because (based on what's happening so far) this has the real potential to negativly impact EVERY pilot at AMR.

I know I'll be crossing my fingers this winter.

 

[RUhiring?]

????

Since I don't know diddly about this AA flowback program, could someone explain it to me? What benefit do the Eagle pilots get from this?

 

[Loafman]

Eagle pilots were given the choice of a flow-trough status or Eagle rights status at the time of captain IOE on the RJ. After 9-11, this choice was vague at best, because AA was not issuing seniority numbers, and some pilots THOUGHT they defaulted to Eagle Rights (no flow through). (Eagle rights captains are not supposed to be vulnerable to a displacement in the event of AA mainline furloughs)

The flow through agreement roughly stated that an Eagle RJ CA with 24 (was 18) months in the equipment could flow to AA in a 1:1 ratio with street hires. (50% of classes would be Eagle guys)

In the event of a downturn, the flipside was that any Eagle pilot that had chosen to flow could be displaced by an AA pilot with a greater AA seniority.

The Truth:

The flow-through never worked as advertised for Eagle pilots. The AA new hire classes never had 50% Eagle pilots, not even close. AA also hired people off the street ahead of Eagle during the original 18 month seat lock when they said that hiring would not begin until the first group of EMJ captains had completed the lock-in. Hundreds of Eagle pilots should have flowed to AA under the language of the agreement but few actually did.

When AA began to furlough, the convoluted language of the agreement was implemented, and it wasn't pretty. The original group of 10/01 furloughs were given VACANCIES contrary to the requirement for them to displace non-eagle-rights CA's. The company did this to save on training cycles. Grieved, arbitrated and won by ALPA.

The next set of furloughees were to be given GROWTH vacancies under the original AA TA in spring of '03. The arbitration of the first set of flowbacks put a stop to the vacancy grab by AA, and the full language of the agreement was implemented, however poorly. The company has devised a way for displaced captains to re-bid and subsequently be vulnerable to re-displacement in the same equipment and in some cases, the same base, creating a "revolving door" effect that allows one displacable Eagle pilot to effectively allow multiple AA pilots access to RJ CA seats in a way that circumvents trickle-down training expense. They even had to fool the computer into allowing a pilot to bid his current status.

Needless to say, this has the Eagle pilot group divided and pi$$ed off.

Hope I answered your question.

 

[RUhiring?]

Thanks

Somehow I knew that there wasn't an easy answer to that question.

At the least, you can blame your problems on a pilot group that is represented by a different union. Everywhere else, it's the same union trying to represent both sides of the fence.

 

[80drvr]

Eagle pilots were given the choice of a flow-trough status or Eagle rights status at the time of captain IOE on the RJ. After 9-11, this choice was vague at best, because AA was not issuing seniority numbers, and some pilots THOUGHT they defaulted to Eagle Rights (no flow through). (Eagle rights captains are not supposed to be vulnerable to a displacement in the event of AA mainline furloughs)

The flow through agreement roughly stated that an Eagle RJ CA with 24 (was 18) months in the equipment could flow to AA in a 1:1 ratio with street hires. (50% of classes would be Eagle guys)

In the event of a downturn, the flipside was that any Eagle pilot that had chosen to flow could be displaced by an AA pilot with a greater AA seniority.

The Truth:

The flow-through never worked as advertised for Eagle pilots. The AA new hire classes never had 50% Eagle pilots, not even close. AA also hired people off the street ahead of Eagle during the original 18 month seat lock when they said that hiring would not begin until the first group of EMJ captains had completed the lock-in. Hundreds of Eagle pilots should have flowed to AA under the language of the agreement but few actually did.

When AA began to furlough, the convoluted language of the agreement was implemented, and it wasn't pretty. The original group of 10/01 furloughs were given VACANCIES contrary to the requirement for them to displace non-eagle-rights CA's. The company did this to save on training cycles. Grieved, arbitrated and won by ALPA.

The next set of furloughees were to be given GROWTH vacancies under the original AA TA in spring of '03. The arbitration of the first set of flowbacks put a stop to the vacancy grab by AA, and the full language of the agreement was implemented, however poorly. The company has devised a way for displaced captains to re-bid and subsequently be vulnerable to re-displacement in the same equipment and in some cases, the same base, creating a "revolving door" effect that allows one displacable Eagle pilot to effectively allow multiple AA pilots access to RJ CA seats in a way that circumvents trickle-down training expense. They even had to fool the computer into allowing a pilot to bid his current status.

Needless to say, this has the Eagle pilot group divided and pi$$ed off.

Hope I answered your question.

It's also worth noting that around 125 flowed from Eagle to AA and two years after the furloughs started, somewhere around 22 of 2600 furloughs have actually flowed back to Eagle. More will in the near future, but that's where we stand now. Pretty crappy deal all the way around.

 

[Loafman]

Crappy indeed. Especially when the deck is always stacked favoring management at the expense of the pilot group.

 

[BE99chick]

Which is exactly why a lot of "juniorish" FOs are leaving Eagle for other places that aren't exactly that much better. Junior Capt's, of course are bailing for greener pastures at ATA, FAL, etc., which are much better gigs.

3-4 year FOs are going to AWAC (I did and it's not all it's cracked up to be, sucks in fact), Comair and, who knows why, but Pinnacle.

AMR is just a mean, nasty company and it gets tiring after awhile. Plus the AA guys can be just flat out annoying.