training in a jet

[krazyk3303]

Does anyone no where in the regs where you can give instruction to a person with no license's in a jet. i have a rich owner who wants to learn how to fly but only in his jet. Are there any restrictions/

 

[JAFI]

What kind of jet? Are two crew required? His insurance company could object.

You may want to read this first:

http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/1980/AAR8002.pdf

 

[HalinTexas]

My bet is the insurance company would refuse to cover this use.

 

[brokeflyer]

Does anyone no where in the regs where you can give instruction to a person with no license's in a jet. i have a rich owner who wants to learn how to fly but only in his jet. Are there any restrictions/

no you cant

 

[pilotyip]

no you cant

Why not? CFI rated in the airplane, no passengers, instruct away. I would start with about a month of sim training

 

[brokeflyer]

Why not? CFI rated in the airplane, no passengers, instruct away. I would start with about a month of sim training

because you need to two pilots that have at least a private cert with a multi-engine rating to fly a jet around....

Since we weren't told the type of airplane.......ya know?

 

[JAFI]

because you need to two pilots that have at least a private cert with a multi-engine rating to fly a jet around....

Since we weren't told the type of airplane.......ya know?

With some execptions, see the link to my post #2 on the Citation 501 crash.

 

[pilotyip]

because you need to two pilots that have at least a private cert with a multi-engine rating to fly a jet around....

Since we weren't told the type of airplane.......ya know?

not in a training environment, because you are not carrying passengers. Guys got the money I would be happy to start him from flight one in a CE-500 or DA-20. He wouldn't even need medical till he took his Pvt MEL flight test. Zantop used to train mechanics who flew as FE on the L-188 as F/O's. A few guys took their first FAA pilot check ride in the L-188 to get their Comm, MEL/Inst.

 

[JAFI]

He wouldn't even need medical till he took his Pvt MEL flight test. .

Then how would he get his required solo/solo cross country time with out a medical?

I need to look up if you can gat a Comm with out a Private first.

 

[brokeflyer]

With some execptions, see the link to my post #2 on the Citation 501 crash.

yes but both those pilots at least had a cert....


post #1 indicated the student had zero time....

BIG DIFFERENCE....

Sounds like you guys interpret the rules to suit the situation.....You have it all figured out. Let me know the outcome.

 

[JAFI]

yes but both those pilots at least had a cert....


post #1 indicated the student had zero time....

BIG DIFFERENCE....

Sounds like you guys interpret the rules to suit the situation.....You have it all figured out. Let me know the outcome.

In the NTSB report the "Student" was not a student pilot but typed in the aircraft, the CFI was not. Teaching in a jet to a low time pilot has it's "problems". From what I heard the Insurance company would not let him go flying with out a certificated pilot to go with him. It would seem the other pilot was not up to the challenge.

Therman should of never made it through FlightSafety but at the time when you bought a new Citation, you always passed.

I asked several questions but have not received any answers, so I do not think there can be a student pilot (i.e. no certificate at all) in a "N" tail numbered jet aircraft (all require a type rating). You could have a Single or multi engine Pilot in the right seat of a Cessna 501 receiving Multi instruction (from a Multi-CFI or if the "Student" is working on his ATP from a ATP rated pilot) but I don't think a student pilot could not go solo in a type rated aircraft.

But as I re-read the OP, he says "no license's in a jet" not "No license at all". Maybe the OP needs to make that clear which it is.

 

[brokeflyer]

thats what ive been saying.....the student has no certificate at all....you cant take a zero time student on put him the left seat of a lear.....regs prohibit that.


Now if the CFI has single pilot for the jet then that may be a diffrent story but I really doubt it. And as you stated, the insurance company has the final word.

When I worked at the fsdo years ago that was a canned answer we had for a lot situations.....it may be legal but the insurance company actually has the final word. Most people would be boggled by that answer.

 

[JAFI]

The OP wrote:

"Does anyone no where in the regs where you can give instruction to a person with no license's in a jet."

OR - Did he mean:

a) Does anyone (k)no(w) where in the regs you can give instruction to a person with no certificate in a jet?

Is that "no certificate, in a jet?" or no jet certificate?

(I still do not know what a "Jet" license is). And I suppose you can "give" instruction but that does not mean toward a pirvate pilot certificate only in a jet. You can give instruction to a certificated airman for a higher rating than he has.

OR

b) Does anyone (k)no(w) where in the regs you can give (primary or pre solo) instruction to a person in a jet?

If the jet requires two pilots, I can think of several regs that are violated if you allow a non pilot in the other seat.

Again, even if the jet required one crew member, how would they go solo if the aircraft required a type rating to act as pic?

Maybe krazyk needs to be more specific?

 

[propilot]

The OP wrote:

"Does anyone no where in the regs where you can give instruction to a person with no license's in a jet."

OR - Did he mean:

a) Does anyone (k)no(w) where in the regs you can give instruction to a person with no certificate in a jet?

Is that "no certificate, in a jet?" or no jet certificate?

(I still do not know what a "Jet" license is). And I suppose you can "give" instruction but that does not mean toward a pirvate pilot certificate only in a jet. You can give instruction to a certificated airman for a higher rating than he has.

OR

b) Does anyone (k)no(w) where in the regs you can give (primary or pre solo) instruction to a person in a jet?

If the jet requires two pilots, I can think of several regs that are violated if you allow a non pilot in the other seat.

Again, even if the jet required one crew member, how would they go solo if the aircraft required a type rating to act as pic?

Maybe krazyk needs to be more specific?

Assuming this is a single pilot capable jet, 61.31 allows for a waiver from the FAA to fly without a type rating for various reasons including training.

The only thing stopping this is insurance. If the guy has enough money, that won't be a problem either.

 

[JAFI]

Assuming this is a single pilot capable jet, 61.31 allows for a waiver from the FAA to fly without a type rating for various reasons including training.

The only thing stopping this is insurance. If the guy has enough money, that won't be a problem either.

You are correct. If lucky I learn something every day.

I wonder how the "student" will qualify this part of 61.31?

"
(2) The Administrator has determined that an equivalent level of safety can be achieved through the operating limitations on the authorization;
"

The student would have to have a lot of money and or pull.

 

[svcta]

Amazing that nearly 4 days after having posted a completely un-interpretable post the OP is nowhere to be seen, and you all still waste your time trying to answer the guy.

Yes, I think we've been had.....

While we're at it, can anyone tell me where in the regulariments it says that i can fly with a pilot whos not actually a pilot in seaplanes that are only used away from the sea between evening civil twilight and dawn but while not night current? I'll check back in a few months to check your progress. Thanks!

 

[propilot]

Amazing that nearly 4 days after having posted a completely un-interpretable post the OP is nowhere to be seen, and you all still waste your time trying to answer the guy.

Yes, I think we've been had.....

While we're at it, can anyone tell me where in the regulariments it says that i can fly with a pilot whos not actually a pilot in seaplanes that are only used away from the sea between evening civil twilight and dawn but while not night current? I'll check back in a few months to check your progress. Thanks!

Sitting reserve in a hotel room. I have all the time in the world to answer stupid questions...

 

[JAFI]

It's better than watching day time TV.

 

[nosehair]

Landplane pilots can fly seaplanes with wheels on land, and since you are a pilot, not a passenger, he doesn't have to meet night currency.

 

[Tired Soul]

I'll bet you the jet in question is a Eclipse 500.
Under a Part 141 syllabus for a PPL ME no solo time is required. It's supervised PIC.
DPE/FAA Inspector would need to be typed to do the checkride.
I'm a rich guy so I don't need hull insurance.

Did I win a cookie?

 

[pilotyip]

I'll bet you the jet in question is a Eclipse 500.
Under a Part 141 syllabus for a PPL ME no solo time is required. It's supervised PIC.
DPE/FAA Inspector would need to be typed to do the checkride.
I'm a rich guy so I don't need hull insurance.

Did I win a cookie?

nope, a whole bag, could do the same in a CE-500 SP

 

[LearLove]

to the original poster (if true) I say go right ahead. One less rich guy (either because he kills himself and you or he spends all his $ on flying) in this world is the same as one less lawyer

 

[Quimby]

Does anyone no where in the regs where you can give instruction to a person with no license's in a jet. i have a rich owner who wants to learn how to fly but only in his jet. Are there any restrictions/

Rich, "0" time owner flying (trying to fly) a jet. I'm sure that will work out well. Tell him to get a Cirrus, them brief him well on how to use the 'chute.

Keep him away from houses and the general population, either way.

 

[Junkflyer]

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

 

[atadog]

I currently work for a well known and highly reputable flight training institution giving dual instruction in a single pilot rated jet.

My students simply get right seat time, but all have COMM/ME/INST and around 300-400 hours. Even with that level of experience, they all still struggle with the transition.

Like the post above says, just because you can doesn't mean you should.

In your case, I damn sure wouldn't.

I've seen way to many of his type that think his money gives him some sort of above average ability to skip the basics and jump ahead.

Your a fool if you let him talk you into it. He will kill you.

All the best. Be safe.

 

[Sandhawk]

I currently work for a well known and highly reputable flight training institution giving dual instruction in a single pilot rated jet.

My students simply get right seat time, but all have COMM/ME/INST and around 300-400 hours. Even with that level of experience, they all still struggle with the transition.

Like the post above says, just because you can doesn't mean you should.

In your case, I damn sure wouldn't.

I've seen way to many of his type that think his money gives him some sort of above average ability to skip the basics and jump ahead.

Your a fool if you let him talk you into it. He will kill you.

All the best. Be safe.

The military trains guys from zero time in jets.....

What is the BFD?

Maybe because you don't have Hot Seats??

imp:

 

[pilotyip]

The military trains guys from zero time in jets.....

What is the BFD?

Maybe because you don't have Hot Seats??

imp:

not any more they all start out in T-props (T-6II), get about 25 hours then do the jets. They are pretty well screened before they start also

 

[atadog]

The military trains guys from zero time in jets.....

What is the BFD?

Maybe because you don't have Hot Seats??

imp:

The BFD is that this guys student is not a miliatry pilot candidate. Seriously doubt he has the same ability and focus as our nations bests cadets. Money can't buy that.

JMHO

 

[Junkflyer]

There may not be a bfd, but if you train and sign this guy off and people get hurt later the lawyers will find a bfd.

 

[pilotyip]

There may not be a bfd, but if you train and sign this guy off and people get hurt later the lawyers will find a bfd.

only if you have something to go after, like assets or insurance, if you are a broke CFI, you will never get sued.