Traffic pattern question at uncontrolled airport

[A-Track]

No matter what always keep your eyes open. I've seen a lot of people that have radios but rarely use them. I know you legally don't have to but come on if you got it use it.

 

[avbug]

Radio use is fine, but don't look for traffic with the radio. See and avoid is the law; it's not merely a suggestion.

 

[VW Pilot]

Well Hawker that is about all you can do unless you fly away or to controlled environments. Even in a controlled environment, the pilot in command is still responsible for seeing and avoiding traffic when in VMC or VFR weather. If you can remember back to your first lessons or if you go and read the AIM, ...there are no regulations on entry methods......just recommendations via the AIM. It isn't even required to transmit on the radio...but what's legal isn't necessarily safe....you will hear that alot...Here is another idea. Fly with a safety pilot. The extra person on board can help in listening and watching for other traffic. Also don't hesitate to refresh yourself with a fresh copy of the FAR/AIM and read all regulations pertaining to your operations/license. Oh yeah. If you have been out of aviation for 20 years and want to get back into flying, make sure you have met the requirements to stay current and have completed all Flight reviews. If you add another rating like and instument rating, that counts as a flight review. Oh and one more thing. You should query traffic. Example: "Vandenberg traffic, Cherokee 16DA is 5 miles north of the airport, we'll be entering left downwind for rwy 5, any traffic advise, Vandenberg traffic". Query by adding "Any Traffic Advise". Welcome Back.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Oh and one more thing. You should query traffic. Example: "Vandenberg traffic, Cherokee 16DA is 5 miles north of the airport, we'll be entering left downwind for rwy 5, any traffic advise, Vandenberg traffic". Query by adding "Any Traffic Advise". Welcome Back.

That's a big NO-NO.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

AIM 4-1-9(g)1

g. Self-Announce Position and/or Intentions
1. General.Self-announce is a procedure whereby pilots broadcast their position or intended flight activity or ground operation on the designated CTAF. This procedure is used primarily at airports which do not have an FSS on the airport. The self-announce procedure should also be used if a pilot is unable to communicate with the FSS on the designated CTAF. Pilots stating, "Traffic in the area, please advise" is not a recognized Self-Announce Position and/or Intention phrase and should not be used under any condition.

 

[VW Pilot]

Ahh I see. But could you explain how that could be unsafe...?? Kind of confusing because traffic is traffic...on the ground or in the air....a collision can happen aloft or on the ground. Also most uncontrolled airports don't have a FSS. (Most i've flown to) I know you didn't write this but can i get an explanation please...Thanks.

 

[VW Pilot]

Deleted.

 

[VW Pilot]

AMISH, I think that portion of the AIM is for classic examples like this....
Guy at an uncontrolled airport jumps in his plane, taxis out to the runway and says "Any traffic in the area please advise" He heard no one transmit and then proceeds to "kick the tires and light the fires"
THAT it is a BIG NO NO.......

 

[Lynxman]

It adds to congestion on the radios and we all know how much some airports have with that. Every now and then I hear someone's life story on the radio.

 

[pilotyip]

and in Canada at untowered FM fields reports are mandatory

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Ahh I see. But could you explain how that could be unsafe...?? Kind of confusing because traffic is traffic...on the ground or in the air....a collision can happen aloft or on the ground. Also most uncontrolled airports don't have a FSS. (Most i've flown to) I know you didn't write this but can i get an explanation please...Thanks.

Here's one scenario where it's unsafe. A pilot in an aircraft not required to have comm radios doesn't hear your transmission which leads to a false sense of security that no one is hovering around the pattern.

It also adds to radio congestion if other pilots begin frantically announcing their position all at once. Radio congestion is a problem especially when several airports share a common frequency, which is usually the case. It's best to pay attention and visualize other position calls rather than asking every pilot in the pattern to transmit. You also create confusion for airports on the same frequency who aren't affected. I've seen pilots get chewed up on the ground by other pilots for making these calls. It really adds nothing to the safety of the flight and generally inconveniences all.

The best way to look at this is to keep your head on a swivel at uncontrolled airports. You should make the appropriate radio calls for each leg and listen up to other aircraft in the terminal area/pattern. This is more effective and efficient than having every plane in the pattern asking for traffic.

Can you imagine if every pilot broadcast his pattern leg and continued to say "any traffic, please advise" at the end of their calls. This would create a maddening situation. Having to listen to this call and every pilot chiming in where they are would create lots of confusion and distractions.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

Over the top 500ft above TPA tear drop around and enter the 45. Make standard call outs and explain what your going to be doing. Lastly keep your head on a swivel.

Many people think this is the way (a teardrop) to enter a traffic pattern. I'm surprised that even some college programs teach that method; because clearly, it is against the FAR's. As AVBUG (and the regs) say, make all turns to the left. The teardrop has the pilot making a 225 degree turn to the right so as to position for the 45 degree entry to downwind. That 225 degree turn is contrary to the "make all turns to the left" regulation.

Personally, I like to fly a crosswind at TPA (which is low enough to see the sock) and then turn left to a downwind leg while constantly scanning for traffic.

 

[AC560]

Many people think this is the way (a teardrop) to enter a traffic pattern. I'm surprised that even some college programs teach that method; because clearly, it is against the FAR's. As AVBUG (and the regs) say, make all turns to the left.

Make all turns to the left when approaching to land (or in other words in the traffic pattern). If I am landing on 27 and coming in from the south west then I am going to enter the traffic pattern on the 45 and make a right turn into the down wind for 27.

Are you saying you are going to fly across the airport left turn onto the upwind then come all the around for 27?

 

[imacdog]

Many people think this is the way (a teardrop) to enter a traffic pattern. I'm surprised that even some college programs teach that method; because clearly, it is against the FAR's. As AVBUG (and the regs) say, make all turns to the left. The teardrop has the pilot making a 225 degree turn to the right so as to position for the 45 degree entry to downwind. That 225 degree turn is contrary to the "make all turns to the left" regulation.

Personally, I like to fly a crosswind at TPA (which is low enough to see the sock) and then turn left to a downwind leg while constantly scanning for traffic.

Please reference the FAR you are saying people are breaking.

 

[rumpletumbler]

Many people think this is the way (a teardrop) to enter a traffic pattern. I'm surprised that even some college programs teach that method; because clearly, it is against the FAR's. As AVBUG (and the regs) say, make all turns to the left. The teardrop has the pilot making a 225 degree turn to the right so as to position for the 45 degree entry to downwind. That 225 degree turn is contrary to the "make all turns to the left" regulation.

AC-90-66A suggests making all turns to the left unless otherwise indicated, however, advisory circulars are not regulatory but advisory in nature.