Tough road ahead for AMR employees

[outerlimits]

. Pilot leaders have indeed shown CEOs the door before. I hope the APA can do something similiar.

Name one time that this has happened ?

 

[waveflyer]

Halin-
As danRoman pointed out both hawaiian and nwa went through BK and held onto pensions.
Can someone give details of that?

 

[Dan Roman]

Wave that's Dan with a capital D....just kidding dude. Hawaiian went through C11 when they had enough cash ( like AA) to have more say in the process. It was sort of a unique deal as it turned out it was somewhat of a sham by the previous major stockholder. He was abusing the process to try and get a better deal from Boeing. As a result, he got thrown out, the stock was never terminated and the airline simply got reorganized. The current DB pensions were frozen and a hybrid DB/DC replaced it.
Interesting to note, the court appointed trustee overseeing the process was one Joshua Gotbaum........the current head of the PBGC.

 

[Flopgut]

Here's the link guys:

http://crewroom.alpa.org/ual/DesktopModules/ViewDocument.aspx?DocumentID=10671

 

[waveflyer]

No disrespect Sir!
(just the iphone ya know)

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Name one time that this has happened ?

I gotta say!!! Your tagline is great chest beating.....but what does ALPA have to say about codesharing? It's the companies call....we voted for whatever gets sent down the trough!!!

You need to figure out who's the enemy here.....I love the guys who blame ALPA for the declining Euro, the real estate market, Asian Carp in Lake Michigan amongst other asinine accusations.

 

[waveflyer]

I gotta say!!! Your tagline is great chest beating.....but what does ALPA have to say about codesharing? It's the companies call....we voted for whatever gets sent down the trough!!!

You need to figure out who's the enemy here.....I love the guys who blame ALPA for the declining Euro, the real estate market, Asian Carp in Lake Michigan amongst other asinine accusations.

I don't blame you for the carp bill- but outsourcing: that's your responsibility.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

I am so glad I IGNORE what he says^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[HalinTexas]

Here's the link guys:

http://crewroom.alpa.org/ual/DesktopModules/ViewDocument.aspx?DocumentID=10671

Ah. That's why. It's an ALPA "statement." I tried to Google Patrick Palazzalo and couldn't find much of anything about him. Limo driver in NYC? Yes, I've read "Flying the Line," too.

I'll choose to observe "Hard Landings," Petzinger and this interesting, and slightly more objective, piece from CNN (It's kinda hard to read, but notice it ain't Fox?): http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/1987/07/06/69232/index.htm

From both of those readings, the union, while playing it's part, did NOT show Ferris the door. Many other entities, notably Ferris himself, played the bigger parts. Imagine if labor had succeeded in purchasing UAL from Allegis? Then, you'd definitely have a case.

UAL's history is VERY complicated.

 

[HalinTexas]

Halin-
As danRoman pointed out both hawaiian and nwa went through BK and held onto pensions.
Can someone give details of that?

I defer to previous posts about HAL.

I submit that the NWA bankruptcy, as previously mentioned, was tied to the DAL bankruptcy as the filed within minutes of each other in the same NY court. Since they both weren't destined for Ch. 13 they worked out the synergies between companies and unions. As I understand it, the NWA pilots were able to keep their pensions, but the DB program never applied to DAL and no longer applies to newhires. They did not hang on to pensions. So, that is a significant change to the pilot group(s).