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[Lrjtcaptain]

I have a question for our ORD controller...

A. I love you guys...

Is the "double back" term in the AIM anywhere? I honestly believe the only place I hear it is ORD ground control. I'm not dogging you guys, I have heard some taxi furballs where its take a breath, issue 4 or 5 clearances, then take another breath. You guys seriously are THE shiznits.

Then Mexicana lands and has less than no clue. I once heard an ORD G/C say "everyone stop - we have Mexicana on the freq!"

I jumpseat/commute out of ORD all the time, and the taxi clearance is always "this double back taxi xxx" and so on, and I was just curious.

I don't think its anywhere in the AIM but we use it to clearify that Alpha is going right, Bravo is going left. We want you to join the other taxi way and go the opposite direction. Its just the way things are said and done. Things stick. Im sure someone one day said it and became ORD phraseology. Just like the penalty box. Someone called it that one day and it stuck.

 

[waveflyer]

Another annoyance...

I read a clearence to a pilot and the readback is just the XPDR. Fine no problem, I don't care, pilot readbacks arent a requirment.

But it ticks me off when the pilot wants me to say read back correct......Not gonna happen. And It sounds stupid to say OH.....Skywest blah blah blah transponder readback correct.

Had a semi funny one today......read a clearence to a pilot today. He read everything back except the fix on the ORD1. I asked if he could at least tell me the first fix as he gave me all the other information. His response was "unable." I said, you can read everything back but the first fix? He then read it back, I don't think he originally understood the question. I thought it was funny.

bottom line is I can have a deal at home asleep because someone read a clearence back incorrectly and I didn't catch it. Its happend to controllers before. They are home sipp'n a beer and come to find out 4 hours down the road for the pilot they make a wrong turn, controller who read the clearence didn't catch in the readback and bang. Its a deal for the clearence delivery guy. So don't expect readback correct unless you give us all the information.

This is funny- b/c if you readback the whole clearance in LAX - they will haze you big time.

I still remember the time- i picked up a clearance for my FO- but the clearance was real different than what we filed- so i read it back full nice and quick- LA came back and said "oh ... i forgot to tell you... advice ready to copy?" "ok...go ahead" "yeah- you're ready?" "yes" "climb to x,xxx, THEN- and this is the part i forgot to tell you- EXPECT FLIGHT LEVEL 350, ONE ZERO MINUTES AFTER -- is it after?- yeah- my boss says it's ONE ZERO minutes AFTER departure EXPECT FL 350, standing by for readback...." (!)
needless to say, i got the point.

Just as it's a good reminder to us that you have 100 airplanes to control every hour- your whole world may be ORD or LAX- but those are just 2 of a 100 airports that we go to- when it's not standard somewhere, pet peeves will happen.

btw- O'Hare- best controllers i've ever dealt with.

 

[Lrjtcaptain]

Thats fine, but if you don't read it back or just say the xpdr what is it you want me to say "roger" XPDR readback correct? You aren't getting readback correct thats for sure. Why is it you need acknowledgement for that if you aren't really reading anything back anyways.....uh tower did you copy??? Yeah, you copied your xpdr.

 

[waveflyer]

A lot of controllers do just that. "Transponder readback correct." done. What are you doing- Saying nothing? I'd query that-

i'll say that it's pretty dumb for LA to get on pilots for reading full clearances- and just as dumb for you to take my info and not gain any perspective- as if chicago does everything exactly by the book. If you really want the confirmation=- ask for a full readback knowing that it's many of your controller brethren that started the habit of transponder codes only. Again- chicago may be your whole world=- we go to a hundred airports. Pick your battles.

 

[Lrjtcaptain]

I don't care if you read it all or non of it. My point isn't confirmation. My point is some of these pilots expect me to say "read back correct." Not gonna happen. I don't know how they do it at other airports so "When in Rome..." Read it all back read none of it back. Most of our planes use PDC. Clearence has time to hear a complete readback

 

[PGH STEEL]

DEN Center N12345 Level Flight Level 380

FL 380 is just as good !!!!!

 

[ATCT]

Regarding the full read back...

I work at a facility thats up there with LAX (sure as hell alot busier than Logan) but not as high as ORD...We'll get there though...and I want to hear the full readback. If you just say the squawk, jump up of the runway and stop at 3 instead of 4, when I said 4,000, and then you run into someones airspace and cause a deal (loss of seperation) then I get pissed because now I gotta fill out pilot deviation reports AFTER management has stuck me in the office for a couple hours waiting on the tapes to be pulled so they can clarify Im not the one at fault first (which they will alway do).

Read it back. If they tell you not to, do it anyways. Its the safe thing to do, not only for your career, but also for mine!

ATCT

 

[gulfstreameric]

roger

 

[waveflyer]

Of course you're right- just explaining how the habit of some controllers can expand into your territory-even from 2000 miles away. There are also controllers who get annoyed if you give the "vacating..." call on a previous descent clearance. I make that call every time. In other words- follow the book- use common sense- be clear- and when needed use plain language to make sure you're clear- if everything's good- then be concise and quick.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

When I get a transponder code change, I put the new code in the transponder.

I figure I have acknowledged the controller via his/her radar scope and my transponder, so a radio call acknowledging the transponder code change is redundant.

Opinions???

cliff
YIP
"Jet USA xxx" (mostly Falcon 20s and DC-9s)