Took My Discovery Flight Today!

[Goose Egg]

I was so passionate about flying and had so much fun with it that I decided to drop a high paying job working for a rapidly growing (stock wise too) company...

So far so good. There's nothing wrong with that. I dropped out of a major in college with a large potential for earnings (accounting) to go back to flying, and haven't looked back. One of the best decisions I ever made.

...took out a huge loan, and moved my life into flight training in hopes of doing it as a career. Welp, today, I'm in a huge debt, I don't have a flying job, can't get into it because I can't afford to (thanks to delays at the CAPT program and their incompentence), and have lost my passion for flying.

The "took out a huge loan" part is where you lost it. Another poster said it best, you are a poster child for CAPT, DCA, RAA, etc. etc. etc. I understand that you had a negative experience and that CAPT wasn't all it was cracked up to be, but don't figure for a minute that it is representative of the industry and that the rest of us are in the same boat. I went to state school, got a 4-year degree and all my ratings while accruing approximately $18k of debt. That translates into a monthly payment of about $130. I can manage that. I graduated with about 300 hours, and am now pushing 1000. I closed that gap through instructing. That's about 700 hours that I didn't pay a cent for.

So, I think a lot about what my CFI told me when I told him I wanted to do it as a career these days. Had I listened to him, I'd still be able to fly WHENEVER I wanted and ENJOYED my flights to KACK or KMVY or other destinations on the weekends and still have a bundle of cash.

I get to fly as much as I want, which is several times daily (weather permitting--I am in New England after all), and it doesn't cost me anything. Had I listened to someone like your instructor, I'd be stuck with about 100 hours and in a job that would probably pay well, but that I absolutely hated. No thanks.

What I've learned from my experience is that flight training outfits is just another money making engine. The people that run it don't care (at least not at CAPT).

Not all flight training outfits. Mine was a non-profit organization (a state run college.)

And most of all, one has to have a TON of cash on hand to sit around to wait for some regional airline to call you...

You won't be waiting long if you are qualified and flexible for who you want to work for. I've been an instructor long enough to see my fellow instructors fly out the door.

so that you can work for $19 an hour for that first year, and then make a morsel more each year while praying that the airline doesn't go out of business or cut your pay scale.

So did you really buy into all that CAPT propaganda? No one goes straight to the majors. Everyone has to "get around the block" somehow. There's a huge difference between merely having the rating and having several hundred (or thousand) hours of experience to go with it. Did you think that you could circumvent that process with the big buy-in from the training program you chose? It just doesn't work like that. Did you really want to fly for a living or did you just want the so-called glory and prestige of the big iron?

Oh, and the time away from friends and family.

That's true, you will spend some time away, but did you not know this before getting into it? Please tell me that this didn't catch you unaware.

So, to answer your question, what should you do? Do something that makes money that affords you the privilege to fly on your terms and enjoy the flying.

Done. I fly on my terms, which is several times per day. I am afforded that priviledge through flight instructing. And it makes money--not a considerable amount, but it's enough for now. I'm not living in the "lap of luxury," but I never expected that (or wanted it for that matter.) All things considered, I really wouldn't want to be doing anything else right now.

I used to hate my job, but I also knew that every 2 weeks I got a paycheck that more than allowed me to fly a few hours on the weekends to wash away all that negative energy at the office.

With a job like that, I'd need to wash away the negative energy daily. How depressing it would be to have that be the focus of your life. Work in a crappy job all day, go home, and only have a few hours to relax before you get up and do it all over again. That would suck.

And if you read on the forums, there are pilots who have admitted that they lost the passion and that flying is just another job.

It's true, flying is work, flying is a job. But it's a job that I really like, and I think you'll find plenty of pilots on this forums who feel similarly.

I might get into flying for a major airline and have a relatively stable career at a good pay.

Who said the only way to a relatively stable career and "good pay" was through a major airline? I'm not planning on flying for a major, and I don't feel like I need to to have a successful career.

-Goose

 

[wrxpilot]

Awesome post Goose!

 

[Flying Ninja]

I think your situation differs from mine a great deal considering you started getting into the aviation industry at an early age and obviously someone mentored you in the ways of the aviation industry and what to expect. I got into aviation when I was 31. Got into CAPT at the age of 32. I was not looking for a short cut into the majors because I didn't want to do the hard work. I was strapped for money, and I knew I was putting everything I have on the table to try to fulfill a dream. CAPT sold me that I was going to be able to get to the regionals and even the majors. They sold me a minimum time with a type rating and a path to guaranteed interviews which they made it sound like you got the job if you graduate their "elite training" program. If I was like you and had the means and the opportunity, I'd probably be doing what you're doing today rather than facing the reality that the dream is over.

By training outfits, I don't mean the local FBO with the local CFIs. I mean corporate outfits with the glossy magazine ads. So yes, I bought into CAPT's propaganda. I was very skepticle about CAPT from the very beginning. Everyone I talked to thought I was crazy for doing it. But they did offer a very attractive and fast track into flying for the airlines. And with that age 60 rule and my starting age, I wanted every advantage to beat the clock because I knew you start out making crap. Someone at CAPT told me it was possible for me to graduate, work for a regional for 5 years and get into a major airline. I knew I was going to be away from home. I just didn't realize when they said you'll be "working half the time" didn't exactly translate to working 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off.

Yes, the desk job sucks. But I don't have a choice anymore. I ran out of time and money to get into this industry. By the time I dig myself out of debt and get recurrent and build up the time to get into a regional airline to make $20k for that first year at the age of 45, I would have been able to make a lot more doing what I'm doing now and be able to fly on the side for enjoyment.

So anyway, you are in a different place than I.

 

[Amish RakeFight]

Ninja

You are way too negative. Things are never that bad. If you love aviation enough, you'll find away. I sure did and it took a few years before I got all my certificates. Yeah, I spent a ton of money but no one can take an education away from you. Cars get old, electronics fail and become obsolete, expensive meals, well, they 're not around for very long either.

It shouldn't take much more cash to get the CFI, from there you are on the road to building hours and getting a job. Once you have the CFI you can fly for free for the rest of your life, even if you choose not to fly for an airline. It's something that could be done on weekends. It's mostly book knowledge and once you begin teaching,the job gets easier and your skills improve dramatically. There's nothing like an early morning takeoff into the cool air with a student looking towards bright blue skies and a sunrise.

 

[Flying Ninja]

I'm sure I come across as being negative. Sure, the education they can't take away from you. But since you're a CFI, you know how quickly these skills fade if you don't use it. I'm quite certain that's why the FAA imposes those currency regulations. Otherwise, why bother with those regs? To that end, let me just tell you that I can't afford to fly anymore far less pay for instruction to get a CFI. I looked around here for a CFI program and it'll cost about $5000. I simply don't have that money. Hell, I'd be happy to see that number pop up on my bank statements these days. My monthly loan payment is $1000; and the interest rate is going up by 0.5% for a whopping 8.5% on $101K. Still doing the math? You figure out the rest and tell me how much money I need to make each month.

You don't have to remind me of the excitment of flying. I know. I got a useless plastic card mailed to me from the FAA to remind me. If you feel like flying that C-150 up to NY and give me some free lessons, I'd be happy to take you up on it on the weekends. I don't mean that seriously, just trying to make a point. Fact is, flying takes money and I don't have it.

It won't be until I get this loan paid off and saved enough money to buy a house and be financially stable before I go back to flying again. All my currencies have expired and they'll remain expired until I have money...which, is about 10-15 years from now. I'll be 45-50 then. At that point, flying as a career simply isn't worth it in my mind.

 

[Flying Ninja]

I'm sure I come across as being negative. Sure, the education they can't take away from you. But since you're a CFI, you know how quickly these skills fade if you don't use it. I'm quite certain that's why the FAA imposes those currency regulations. Otherwise, why bother with those regs? To that end, let me just tell you that I can't afford to fly anymore far less pay for instruction to get a CFI. I looked around here for a CFI program and it'll cost about $5000. I simply don't have that money. Hell, I'd be happy to see that number pop up on my bank statements these days. My monthly loan payment is $1000; and the interest rate is going up by 0.5% for a whopping 8.5% on $101K. Still doing the math? You figure out the rest and tell me how much money I need to make each month.

You don't have to remind me of the excitment of flying. I know. I got a useless plastic card mailed to me from the FAA to remind me. If you feel like flying that C-150 up to NY and give me some free lessons, I'd be happy to take you up on it on the weekends. I don't mean that seriously, just trying to make a point. Fact is, flying takes money and I don't have it.

It won't be until I get this loan paid off and saved enough money to buy a house and be financially stable before I go back to flying again. All my currencies have expired and they'll remain expired until I have money...which, is about 10-15 years from now. I'll be 45-50 then. At that point, flying as a career simply isn't worth it in my mind.

 

[777-2H4]

Ninja, I'm another one that is starting late. Except I'm 10 years older than when you started! I don't have much useful time left. And, I also don't have any family members that encourage me - in other words, I'm getting negative vibes to the idea of me flying. That saddens me.

Another possible outlet for my passion for aviation is to learn to fly up thru the CFI stage, and start my own aerial photography business. I could keep my regular job and do photo shoots on the side, AND, do flight instruction on the side as well. This way, I wouldn't become a full time pilot. I don't know - my head is full of emotions right now. I wonder how lucrative, or how great the need is for aerial photography.

 

[wrxpilot]

777-2H4,

There's plenty of people that got into aviation at a later age. Quite a few considerably older than 41, which really isn't that old anyway. I totally agree that if you want something bad enough, it will happen. Assuming you are in the US, anything's possible! Good luck and it was great hearing about your disco flight!!

 

[Goose Egg]

I got into aviation when I was 31. Got into CAPT at the age of 32.

It's true that I did get an earlier start than you, but I'm certainly not the youngest CFI around here. I turn 30 in two months. And I really didn't get much guidance, I just sought the course of action that was the best fit for my situation.

-Goose

P.S. Anyone who quotes $5000 for a CFI is either severely misinformed or trying to rip you off.

 

[flybuddy1]

Go to a grass strip and get aquainted with a taildragger Before you get hooked on 172s