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PCL_128 said:
John, you're an ass.
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AH yes we all are!!!! back stabing each other or rolling our eyes to each other...you suck, no you suck...

...common guys the weasel_lips is right managment is loning it, they created this ******************** not the EAST or the WEST for that matter lets show them who have cojones!!!!
 
BUDDHA145 said:
AH yes we all are!!!! back stabing each other or rolling our eyes to each other...you suck, no you suck...

...common guys the weasel_lips is right managment is loning it, they created this ******************** not the EAST or the WEST for that matter lets show them who have cojones!!!!
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Wasting your time there Buddha. Management already made their money and now have the golden parachutes to prove it!!

USAirways will finally be gone for good and not a soul outside of us employees will care. Less seats for the reast of the industry.

WD
 
BeCareful! said:
SCABS? Here? Let's go ahead and deal with the truth: The only actual SCABS are at AWA. Slip an extra shrimp on the barbie for ya? Ring any bells?

Damage the profession? ALPA has done more damage than management! ALPA has caused so much infighting here and at other airlines, management hasn't had to lift a finger. Here are some ALPA inventions: APL, CEL, ACPC, MDA, J4J, Pre-1998 hires, etc. All of these sub-groups have caused a lack of unity, a lack of focus, and have allowed the company to screw us.

Soulfly: Where did you get your "facts?" Here, on the Internet? Or from ALPA? Please show us all when and where USAPA allegedly made this cost neutral offer to Parker. Come on, we're waiting. It NEVER happened, and it won't . It's rhetoric, and it's BS.

Like it or not, the fastest way to unify and get moving on a contract is USAPA. It will be better for everyone, right? I mean, that's what you guys keep telling us, right? As in "hey, don't sweat it being on the bottom of the list, it will just be better to get a contract." OK, fine.....let's get a contract. You think ALPA is going to deliver a contract, when, next month? Put the crack pipe down! ALPA hasn't done anything, and they won't be any time soon. They suck, and lots of AWA pilots know it.

In fact, didn't ALPA narrowly escape decertification at AWA just a few years ago? What occured to make you guys almost 100% ALPA supporters? Oh yeah....Nicolau.

If the gdmnd flawed Nicolau wasn't such a huge windfall to you all, then what mighty impressive act did ALPA perform for you all that changed so many minds so quickly?

Hmmmm.....yeah, I thought so.
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Reading your post 3 words come readily to mind;



Seek Professional Help


PHXFLYR:cool:
 
USAPA pilots make the best decision for you...don't worry about ALPA national or what a couple of FEDEX pilots tell ya.

I know plenty of guys here at FEDEX, (where things are generally well) who would quit the union yesterday if it weren't for the agency shop clause that we now have in our contract. That clause in essence madates that if you quit the union...the company has to fire you.

Since we agreed to that, we've had a lousy LOA and a pro-65 stance (even though over 70% of our pilots were against it) shoved down our throat an the behest of ALPA national's agenda.

There are plenty of unions out there that are doing quite well. APA and SWAPA for example. Plus...let's face it...when pitted against SWAPA and a couple of old geezers with the APAAD, ALPA lost...so much for it's incredible leverage we keep hearing about.

Do what's right for you and your careers, and don't worry about the guys in Herndon...they'll be just fine.
There are plenty of pilots at FEDEX who are fedup with ALPA and our MEC. I know two of the three guys in the video...they are good guys...but...again...they are doing ALPA nationals bidding, if they were doing ours, then perhaps they could get a modest COLA for our pilots being based overseas.
 
Wiskey Driver said:
Wasting your time there Buddha. Management already made their money and now have the golden parachutes to prove it!!

USAirways will finally be gone for good and not a soul outside of us employees will care. Less seats for the reast of the industry.

WD
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Boy,what a little "ray of sunshine" we've become in our old age. What's the matter? Flying with baby brother gettin' you down ?;)

PHXFLYR:cool:
 
I know Beebe as well. So can anyone who reads the hundreds of pages of sworn testimony he made.

My favorite was when he admitted that he and the rest of the AAA MEC knew full well that the ALG and PDT pilot groups would at no time receive RJ's (as promised in a pending concessionary TA). He knew that we would be agreeing to give something for nothing. He knew and admitted that it would be of critical importance for the two pilot groups to be made aware of this fact. He admitted that he kept this information from the "BROTHAS" at the WOs at the request of management.

Why would he do this to his "BROTHAS" at the WOs? I believe it was to gain things from management at our expense. We subsequently signed away items and $ in a concessionary TA, with the inclusion of "if US Airways finances RJ's, participating carriers will get RJ's. We got the shaft, Beebe got a promotion. ALG in particular was forced to discard its superior contract with the application of ALPO national pressure.

Personally, FUKC ALPO! Honestly, I don't believe USAPA is an improvement, a solution, or the correct move though, either.

I don't know what would be best, with the obvious exception of ALPO ending its counter-productive, discriminatory, ineffectual, wasteful, dishonest activities, of course. Is this likely? No, I don't think it is.
 
Tweaker said:
I know Beebe as well. So can anyone who reads the hundreds of pages of sworn testimony he made.

My favorite was when he admitted that he and the rest of the AAA MEC knew full well that the ALG and PDT pilot groups would at no time receive RJ's (as promised in a pending concessionary TA). He knew that we would be agreeing to give something for nothing. He knew and admitted that it would be of critical importance for the two pilot groups to be made aware of this fact. He admitted that he kept this information from the "BROTHAS" at the WOs at the request of management.

Why would he do this to his "BROTHAS" at the WOs? I believe it was to gain things from management at our expense. We subsequently signed away items and $ in a concessionary TA, with the inclusion of "if US Airways finances RJ's, participating carriers will get RJ's. We got the shaft, Beebe got a promotion. ALG in particular was forced to discard its superior contract with the application of ALPO national pressure.

Personally, FUKC ALPO! Honestly, I don't believe USAPA is an improvement, a solution, or the correct move though, either.

I don't know what would be best, with the obvious exception of ALPO ending its counter-productive, discriminatory, ineffectual, wasteful, dishonest activities, of course. Is this likely? No, I don't think it is.
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You are correct....waiting for Rez to spin the excuse for this.......
 
PHXFLYR said:
No he's not. He's just another bitter little "Barbie Jet" pilot pissed at the world. But don't worry. He'll get over it. Someday.

PHXFLYR:cool:
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WRONG....I am dreading going to the "barbie jet".....Not all of us have SJS......I have been flying the ATR for the last 13 years......The ATR at ASA is one of the best kept secrets....I'm going to make about 112K this year with my choice of schedules.....flying a turbo-prop.

It seems some of you who have gone over to the "real" airline jobs seem pretty bitter....

For the record you AWA guys are right....but then you guys have always been considered "regionals" with bigger airplanes.....You guys were flying 757's for 124 an hour max up until a few years ago...The top ASA RJ rate is 104 an hour....

Remember it wasn't too long ago that you guys were threatening to leave ALPA and ALPA brought a scab to PHX to convince you guys to stay in ALPA.....

I just don't see any unity there either way.....The seniority system and the failure to transport it is killing us.....
 
Joe- Are those ATR rates ALPA rates?

As far as Beebe... I've meet him a couple times.. seems nice.... if that is what you believe go for it...

As always... ALPA isn't perfect.. it is run by people... just like the gov't, church...

Is any marriage perfect? 50% of all marriages end up in divorce.. However, if someone rejects marriage does that mean marriage is flawed?

See Joe... its not organized democracry that is flawed.. its you...

Recall, you wanted to be ALPA ... and you tried, but you don't have the skillset to stay at the table when you don't get your way...

ALPA has big problems... but it requires mature professionals... not cty baby victims who use lawsuits..
 
Wiskey Driver said:
Wasting your time there Buddha. Management already made their money and now have the golden parachutes to prove it!!

USAirways will finally be gone for good and not a soul outside of us employees will care. Less seats for the reast of the industry.

WD
Click to expand...

And you wonder why we didn't want any part of that mess. The east has you poor people on a crash course for the iceberg, and usapa is at the helm!

737
 
JoeMerchant said:
You are correct....waiting for Rez to spin the excuse for this.......
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There's nothing to spin. Tweaker's statements about the deposition are simply false. Anyone reading the deposition objectively will see that Captain Beebe has done nothing wrong.
 
bravodude said:
And what has alpa done for you..pay cuts shrinking routes and a bk filling, thats good!
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Are you actually employed in the aviation profession? It's hard to imagine that a person in the biz. could be so confused. This statement is so simplistic and under-informed I'm nearly positive you suffer from some form of retardation. Just wait and see what the USAPA SCABs come up with. You'll be begging for the day of your misdirected disappointment.

Good Luck rainman.
 
PHXFLYR said:
Boy,what a little "ray of sunshine" we've become in our old age. What's the matter? Flying with baby brother gettin' you down ?;)

PHXFLYR:cool:
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Naw, I enjoy flying with you brother that way I get all stories about you and how you are so much like your uncle!!:laugh:

WD
 
bravodude said:
And what has alpa done for you..pay cuts shrinking routes and a bk filling, thats good!
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Can you show the BK filings with ALPA's or any unions name on it?

Managment loves guys like you who choose to be ignorant....
 
PHXFLYR -

OK, so you didn't like what I said or something, but can you answer the questions I asked? Specifically:

Didn't ALPA narrowly escape decertification at AWA just a few years ago? What occurred to make you guys almost 100% ALPA supporters?

If the Nicolau wasn't such a huge windfall to you all, then what mighty impressive act did ALPA perform for you all that changed so many minds so quickly?

Also, maybe you can verify soulfly's "facts."

Thanks.

BC
 
All you ALPA hounds....remember who was in charge of the AAA MEC when the pension was given away in the middle of the night without membership ratification?

Inquiring minds want to know.

A350
 
BeCareful! said:
PHXFLYR -

OK, so you didn't like what I said or something, but can you answer the questions I asked? Specifically:

Didn't ALPA narrowly escape decertification at AWA just a few years ago? What occurred to make you guys almost 100% ALPA supporters?

If the Nicolau wasn't such a huge windfall to you all, then what mighty impressive act did ALPA perform for you all that changed so many minds so quickly?

BC
Click to expand...

The Nicolau award is the seniority list with either ALPA or USAPA, whether or not we or you like it, consider it a "windfall" or a travesty. That's kind of how binding arbitration works. The seniority list is not a valid reason for supporting USAPA, even though they will try to tell you otherwise. Your best chance at improving on the Nic is to continue JNC negotiations with that goal in mind. Your one piece of remaining leverage is that this airline can't move forward without the East on board with a combined contract. Why not use that leverage?

Why are we all so ardent ALPA supporters now? Easy.....the alternative is so ghastly that it makes ALPA look like utopia in comparison. Why would we want to support a group founded on the premise of f#cking us, gutting our contract, and costing us years and millions in litigation?

The more interesting question here is: why are you so gullible as to believe the questionable promises of USAPA?
 
UALjan15 said:
The Nicolau award is the seniority list with either ALPA or USAPA, whether or not we or you like it, consider it a "windfall" or a travesty. That's kind of how binding arbitration works. The seniority list is not a valid reason for supporting USAPA, even though they will try to tell you otherwise. Your best chance at improving on the Nic is to continue JNC negotiations with that goal in mind. Your one piece of remaining leverage is that this airline can't move forward without the East on board with a combined contract. Why not use that leverage?

Why are we all so ardent ALPA supporters now? Easy.....the alternative is so ghastly that it makes ALPA look like utopia in comparison. Why would we want to support a group founded on the premise of f#cking us, gutting our contract, and costing us years and millions in litigation?

The more interesting question here is: why are you so gullible as to believe the questionable promises of USAPA?
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UAL hit it on the head. The arbitration is FINAL and BINDING, it won't go away. All you guys are doing is destroying any chance at a good contract. You guys complain about being f#$^@! over, but you guys are doing it to yourselves. Since you have a long history of screwing yourselves I must asume you're a bunch of masochists.
 
A350 said:
All you ALPA hounds....remember who was in charge of the AAA MEC when the pension was given away in the middle of the night without membership ratification?

Inquiring minds want to know.

A350
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I remember clearly. It was THEIR OWN ELECTED OFFICIALS, that caved to the pension. It wasn't AWA or ALPA national.
 
TWA Dude said:
Oh, and a former AWAPA leader is our current MEC Chairman.
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All uSAPa supporters should think about the above quote. This is someone that learned that the best way to accomplish progress is by working within the system. Captain McIlvena is one of many current ALPA leaders that used to be outspoken opponents of the Association. After spending time working in the Association, they realize its value and how things really get accomplished. Follow his lead and don't make the same mistakes that the FPA and IACP pilots did.
 
Well if you guys are so sure that the arbitration stays no matter who the CBA is, and what you want is a contract ASAP. Well even with ALPA that won't occur. You see many on the east believe that the arbitration won't stay. Until that is proven wrong they will vote down ANY contract ALPA comes up with. So without both sides voting in a TA, there won't be any combined contract, Unless of course ALPA pulls a quick one and finds a loop hole to get one forced on the east.

In the meantime, if you let the events play out, the east side satisfy themselves (as all on the west have said that Nick ain't going anywhere) that they've exhausted every legal means available to them. After such has happened a contract will come forward. If USAPA is the CBA, it won't require to seperate votes, but one collective vote.
So sit back, let the vote tally come in, and move on from there.

If your so sure that USAPA can't vacate the award, what do you have to worry about??
 
Or he could be a person who has personal motives to be involved in Union work, and wanted all the power to himself, hence being the leader of AWAPA. that didn't work, so run for ALPA MEC, and enjoy the 30k meetings and other perks associated with such.

Personally I don't see the ROI from alpa that I feel it should be. Aeromedical??? My AME did more work and was quicker than the advice, or what ALPA said. Lobbying???? Is ALPA lobbying really effective?? Or do they just claim victory when one an issue falls the way towards ALPA's stated opinion??? I really didn't see much effect ALPA had on the pension debacle, or getting things changed, Such as the benefit from PBGC to be adjusted for the mandatory retirement age of 60 against 65. Oh, ALPA's answer was to lift retirement age.
How long has ALPA been working on the one pass, or security bypass issue for us???

ALPA is a bloated beuracracy, who has run it's time. I've yet to meet a pilot that has a favorable thing to say regarding alpa. Be it from UAL, Delta, NW, Polar, Atlas etc... ALPA has lost it's bite....
 

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