Something has got to be done about the discussions on RJDC, scope, wholly owned vs. contract carriers, etc. It is getting out of hand! You can't read through half of the threads here without retreading the same arguments from the same people. I am sick of it, even threads that start out innoncently quickly turn ugly as soon as someone show up to put a "scope" or "rjdc" spin on an otherwise benign topic. The issue has become as disruptive to these boards as PFT once was and something has got to be done. I'm not proposing censorship, or giving Surplus1 and Flydeltasjets their own forum, but maybe create a seperate forum for industry "hot button" issues to cut down on the amount of garbage here at the main forum. The main forum should be reserved for peace loving folk who are simply looking for advice and information. How about it?
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Goffer
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"If you don't want to read it. don't click on the post."
Somehow I knew that comment would find it's way in to the one of the replies. You're missing the point, you can't get it away from it, it's plastered everywhere. You also did not address my suggestion, create a new forum where you can go and read all of the long winded RJDC threads you want. Leave the main forum to the rest of us. Just an idea but I think it would go a long way in restoring some peace here.
Somehow I knew that comment would find it's way in to the one of the replies. You're missing the point, you can't get it away from it, it's plastered everywhere. You also did not address my suggestion, create a new forum where you can go and read all of the long winded RJDC threads you want. Leave the main forum to the rest of us. Just an idea but I think it would go a long way in restoring some peace here.
Why not just merge the posts into one section. Your can organize them by Date of Posting, or maybe by the number of postings they have listed in their profile.
Whatever you choose, be careful. Some of the mainline guys might no want to be in the same forum with the regionals. Additionally the RJDC might bring a lawsuite again this board if it doesn't get what it wants.
Take my advise or I'll call my MEC.
FM
Whatever you choose, be careful. Some of the mainline guys might no want to be in the same forum with the regionals. Additionally the RJDC might bring a lawsuite again this board if it doesn't get what it wants.
Take my advise or I'll call my MEC.
FM
waka
Emasculating the Right
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2001
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- 1,972
Of course this comment was made. You have the option to click on it, simple as that.
I believe that more good came from the PFT discussions and disruption had very little to do with it. Pilots even posted that they decided against PFT based on posts from this message board. I imagine that this scope/rjdc discussion provokes thought as well. How is it "disruption" if you don't (again) click on it?
What's next? Someone might actually want a seperate forum to discuss message board issues?
Many topics aren't so cut and dry that they wouldn't be related to another category. For some folks, the "advice and information" is imbedded in various hot topic issues.
I'm not trying to make a big deal of this. I'm just surprised that this came up at all.
If you've been around these boards long enough you'll recall that on the old Aviation Message Board PFT discussions were banned. Why is the RJDC debate allowed to run rampant? I'm not saying they don't have the right to express their views, but when every thread is used to promote an agenda it borders on SPAM.
--I edited out some of the wording in my post it was a little stronger then I intended I didn't want this thread to turn in to yet another RJDC debate. Lets keep this thread on topic, there has to be a solution to the constant bickering.
--I edited out some of the wording in my post it was a little stronger then I intended I didn't want this thread to turn in to yet another RJDC debate. Lets keep this thread on topic, there has to be a solution to the constant bickering.
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Since I was one of the "offenders" named prehaps I could offer a suggestion.
Maybe we could have a General Aviation section where pilots with no interest in airline related issues could browse to their hearts content and never come across anything that had to do with airline pilots.
Then we could have an Air Carrier section for airline pilots to talk about things that interest them.
If we go that way, I promise not to read anything that I find of no interest to me personally. I also promise that I won't write about private pilot issues.
It would probably be a lot easier to just not click on the threads that we all know involve the airline industry, but whatever it takes to make you happy is ok with me, as long as you don't limit me to reading about 172s and matters that interest student pilots.
Maybe we could have a General Aviation section where pilots with no interest in airline related issues could browse to their hearts content and never come across anything that had to do with airline pilots.
Then we could have an Air Carrier section for airline pilots to talk about things that interest them.
If we go that way, I promise not to read anything that I find of no interest to me personally. I also promise that I won't write about private pilot issues.
It would probably be a lot easier to just not click on the threads that we all know involve the airline industry, but whatever it takes to make you happy is ok with me, as long as you don't limit me to reading about 172s and matters that interest student pilots.
Surplus1,
I appreciate the suggestion but maybe I want to read about airline issues without reading about the RJDC every time. No offense but RJDC supporters sometimes come off like Johovas Witness trying to "spread the word" to anyone who will listen. Yes it's true no one will force you to read the pamphlet, but they are still going to hand it to you every chance they get. I say move the debate to a new section for current airline issues or something along those lines. The notion that RJDC threads are clearly marked is just not true, you can't even mention Mesa or Skywest anymore without it turning in to a 5 page marathon RJDC debate. There has to be a better way.
I appreciate the suggestion but maybe I want to read about airline issues without reading about the RJDC every time. No offense but RJDC supporters sometimes come off like Johovas Witness trying to "spread the word" to anyone who will listen. Yes it's true no one will force you to read the pamphlet, but they are still going to hand it to you every chance they get. I say move the debate to a new section for current airline issues or something along those lines. The notion that RJDC threads are clearly marked is just not true, you can't even mention Mesa or Skywest anymore without it turning in to a 5 page marathon RJDC debate. There has to be a better way.
MetroSheriff
Hittin' the road...
- Joined
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- 854
Sometimes the rhetoric from both sides can be a bit much, but it sure makes for good reading. Personally, if the discussions were banned, or limited in any way, I would be upset. If the board were restricted to the point that all it consisted of were topics such as "When do YOU apply carb heat" or "Need advice for proper interview shoes" and "With 342 hours TT should I buy 100 hours in a B727 or Get a 737 type rating" that would be the end for me.
I like the boards the way they are. Maybe one additional forum that was dedicated to the scope debates, but in reality, it really does encompass many facets of the industry and as such is germane to many discussions that are in various forums.
If you are that bored by a topic that is THE most important issue to anyone who is, or hopes to be a professional pilot, than stick your head back in the sand and read FLYING magazine.
I like the boards the way they are. Maybe one additional forum that was dedicated to the scope debates, but in reality, it really does encompass many facets of the industry and as such is germane to many discussions that are in various forums.
If you are that bored by a topic that is THE most important issue to anyone who is, or hopes to be a professional pilot, than stick your head back in the sand and read FLYING magazine.
enigma
good ol boy
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 2,279
Sorry FL, but I gotta disagree. My informal numbers say that the majority of the participants on this board are professional pilots or aspiring professional pilots; and this profession is in a state of transitition that could change it forever. I conclude that this area of discussion is the most worthy thing that we could be talking about. Like yourself, I get bogged down with the repetitiveness of the discussion, but sometimes a fact/thought springs up that greatly increases my understanding of the situation and I'm glad that I took the time to wade through it.
Maybe you should push for the idea that Surplus1 has, start a seperate page for non-industry issues.
regards
8N
Maybe you should push for the idea that Surplus1 has, start a seperate page for non-industry issues.
regards
8N
alimaui
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2002
- Posts
- 207
I for one, although not always in the mood for reading about scope clauses and why RJs are from hell, like having everthing at an arms length. I am still very new to this industry and these discussions were (notice past tense) informative. These types aof issues are a wake up for future dealings in the industry. To a point they are beneficial to this posting community with the many viewpoints that are offered helping to see all sides of the situation.THis being the "general" board, I think it is somewhat ridiculous to move them. These issues although insdustry changing, will not be around forever. They will be resolved, and its silly to create another section of the board for them.
The point made above is true. If you dont want to read it, then dont. I guess the only thing can be really said is kind of a well duh but I shall say it anyway. Why must the same issues be re-hashed over and over again. Why must the threads be revived with the same nonsense and arguments. Every time that time-building in a B727 comes up I am astounded....it has been mulled over too many times, but yet still people decide to comment on it. So guess what, I dont read it. Its simple as that. But, it nice to have it all in the general forum, where it belongs.
OMHO
Ali
BTW, please note the level of training attained, so you may no that I have hidden agenda...
The point made above is true. If you dont want to read it, then dont. I guess the only thing can be really said is kind of a well duh but I shall say it anyway. Why must the same issues be re-hashed over and over again. Why must the threads be revived with the same nonsense and arguments. Every time that time-building in a B727 comes up I am astounded....it has been mulled over too many times, but yet still people decide to comment on it. So guess what, I dont read it. Its simple as that. But, it nice to have it all in the general forum, where it belongs.
OMHO
Ali
BTW, please note the level of training attained, so you may no that I have hidden agenda...
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waka
Emasculating the Right
- Joined
- Nov 28, 2001
- Posts
- 1,972
Your statement is not true. I've been reading this message board for several years and through several board overhauls. Although banning PFT discussion was discussed by a few posters, I don't remember, at anytime, that PFT discussions were indiscriminately banned by the board administrator. Perhaps the admin could comment.
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Since neither Admin or Webmaster have responded, let me give some guidance:
First of all, PFT was never "banned". You can talk about it all you want, as long as the conversation remains civil. Unfortunately, that conversation never remains civil for long, so the moderators step in. We just spread the word that when it becomes uncivil it will be shut down.
I feel the same way about the RJDC threads. In a thread whose topic is devoted to RJDC/scope type issues, you know what you're getting into when you click on it. As long as it doesn't turn into a bash session or 10 pages of repetition, I say let it alone.
On the other hand, I know what you are talking about when an unrelated topic is "hijacked" into an RJDC debate because one poster brings that into the discussion and everybody else follows. This sort of thing is rather annoying because you have to wade through pages of stuff untrlated to the original discussion topic.
To address this, we have asked, and continue to ask posters to only make replies to the original topic. It is up to the posters to keep a topic on track. When a topic goes astray, it is a moderators job to bring it back to the topic, whether that means offering guidance, deleting/moving posts or in extreme cases, closing the topic.
If you want to make a post that isn't a direct response to something said in a thread, simply start a new topic and go from there.
I agree with FLpilot that some, but not all, RJDC supporters deliberately try to bring the RJDC into unrelated topics as a means to "evangelize" the "non believers". Though this hasn't been bad lately, we continue to frown on this and it will be dealt with on a case by case basis through the "report a post to a moderator" function and through moderators browsing.
Regards,
If4f, Moderator
First of all, PFT was never "banned". You can talk about it all you want, as long as the conversation remains civil. Unfortunately, that conversation never remains civil for long, so the moderators step in. We just spread the word that when it becomes uncivil it will be shut down.
I feel the same way about the RJDC threads. In a thread whose topic is devoted to RJDC/scope type issues, you know what you're getting into when you click on it. As long as it doesn't turn into a bash session or 10 pages of repetition, I say let it alone.
On the other hand, I know what you are talking about when an unrelated topic is "hijacked" into an RJDC debate because one poster brings that into the discussion and everybody else follows. This sort of thing is rather annoying because you have to wade through pages of stuff untrlated to the original discussion topic.
To address this, we have asked, and continue to ask posters to only make replies to the original topic. It is up to the posters to keep a topic on track. When a topic goes astray, it is a moderators job to bring it back to the topic, whether that means offering guidance, deleting/moving posts or in extreme cases, closing the topic.
If you want to make a post that isn't a direct response to something said in a thread, simply start a new topic and go from there.
I agree with FLpilot that some, but not all, RJDC supporters deliberately try to bring the RJDC into unrelated topics as a means to "evangelize" the "non believers". Though this hasn't been bad lately, we continue to frown on this and it will be dealt with on a case by case basis through the "report a post to a moderator" function and through moderators browsing.
Regards,
If4f, Moderator
Nice
ifly4food,
Ironic you're one of the only ones who actually "got" my post. The "hijacking" of threads and the evangelical style of the RJDC supporters was the main point I was trying to make, you just managed to express it more eloquently than I did. I think you have offered some reasonable solutions and I hope that some of the "offenders" will do a better job of policing themselves from now on. Thank you!
FLpilot
ifly4food,
Ironic you're one of the only ones who actually "got" my post. The "hijacking" of threads and the evangelical style of the RJDC supporters was the main point I was trying to make, you just managed to express it more eloquently than I did. I think you have offered some reasonable solutions and I hope that some of the "offenders" will do a better job of policing themselves from now on. Thank you!
FLpilot
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