to strike or not to strike...

[vmc-hound]

This question is for the XJT pilots or whoever. At what point does ALPA say enough...F it and walk out during talks???? At what point do you begin slowdowns or whatever? 10 percent with profit sharing doesn't sound all that great considering the responsibility pilots have and the money pilots make the airlines!!!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

ED-U-KAY-SHUN!!

ALPA doesn't. The National Mediation Board (NMB) has defined procedures via the Railway Labor Act. (RLA). But if there is a anti labor president, like (think of the Church Lady) I don't know, maybe ..........BUSH! Then he may stop a legitimate job action by invoking a Presidential Emergency Board (PEB) stripping a pilots group right to strike. But this is usually saved for the majors....

This is the right direction, another might have more details....

 

[Lear70]

Heard a twisted rumor that the NMB flat-out told the XJet negotiating team that the NMB would not release the pilots to self-help for demands greater than Comair rates. True?

Don't flame, just heard it from our ALPA leadership...

 

[Simon Says]

OH Boy,

VMC-Hound you have got a long ways to go before any legal job action may be performed. Don't think in terms of weeks or months, think of YEARS! Hate to say it, but being in contract negotiations is a real bummer, but the bright side is that you will learn about what ALPA is and what ALPA is not.

 

[Publishers]

Pilots

"the money the pilots make the airlines."

Two threads ago, there was an article about the cummlative losses the airline industry has experienced so if pilots make the airlines a lot of money, someone needs to tell their accountants.

One of the things that makes negotiation so tough is when a labor group thinks it makes this great contribution like " you could not fly the aircraft without the pilots."

Well that may be right, but, the fact is that pilots do not make the airlines any money. To produce a profit in this industry, a massive number of things must go right, and, the pilots are not a significant part of that compared to other issues.

This and some kind of false thinking about holding the professional line are two things that got us here.

 

[LAXSaabdude]

There is a false thinking among management types that pilots are supposed to "share the pain" during tough times in the industry, while these same worthless individuals line their pockets with obscene amounts of money while furloughing their valued employees. These same worthless individuals will deny their valued employees their share of compensation when times are good.

I can't believe you would align yourself with this mindset. You must truly have no shame.

LAXSaabdude.

 

[Ben Dover]

At what point does ALPA say enough...F it and walk out during talks????

Um, if you're looking for ALPA to help you out, then you'd be looking in the wrong place. ALPA is the fox guarding your hen house that has gotten you to the place where you currently are.

PS Let me give you one more hint. If you think your low pay has anything to do with aircraft size then you'd be wrong.

 

[AFELLOWAVIATOR]

ED-U-KAY-SHUN!!

ALPA doesn't. The National Mediation Board (NMB) has defined procedures via the Railway Labor Act. (RLA). But if there is a anti labor president, like (think of the Church Lady) I don't know, maybe ..........BUSH! Then he may stop a legitimate job action by invoking a Presidential Emergency Board (PEB) stripping a pilots group right to strike. But this is usually saved for the majors....

This is the right direction, another might have more details....

I really don't think you can gereralize like that. It was Clinton, a so called labor friendly President who evoked the board when AMR pilots walked. They were on strike for 5 minutes.

 

[jobear]

Re: Pilots

"the money the pilots make the airlines."
Well that may be right, but, the fact is that pilots do not make the airlines any money. To produce a profit in this industry, a massive number of things must go right, and, the pilots are not a significant part of that compared to other issues.

This and some kind of false thinking about holding the professional line are two things that got us here.

Ask the pioneers of aviation about holding "THE LINE" . Those guys held the line in a much rougher era where lockouts and union busting was the norm.
We are a large part of the industry hell we fly the GD planes! We make decisions about penetraiting those lovely Thunderstroms that dispatch tells us are dissapating(sp). We hand fly the approaches down to minimums 6,7,8 times a day.

Don't try to diminsh what we do for a living CHRIST the CEO's are making Millions off of the sweat of our brows and continue to run the airlines into the ground, it was there faulty leadership and greed that got us into this situation. WHY piss-poor leadership, not my inflated $13,000 1st year pay or my $16,000 2nd year pay.
PLEASE

Rant over
Jobear

 

[trainerjet]

Publishers never knows what the f*ck he's talking about. He just spouts that same old "this is a business, and I am a business man" BS. Then again...he DID write the book on it, so he knows EVERYTHING. Just ask him. He'll tell you.

 

[MJG]

At what point does ALPA say enough...F it and walk out during talks???? At what point do you begin slowdowns or whatever? 10 percent with profit sharing doesn't sound all that great considering the responsibility pilots have and the money pilots make the airlines!!!

Probably never. Doesn't do any good for anyone to walk out on negotiations. Our company has done that several times already but it's all for show. Part of the silly game they're playing.

We're not just up against the company this time. We're up against a very unfavorable administration that will not allow a strike before this November's election. An administration that has influence with the Republican controlled NMB. XJet and CAL are both Texas based companies. Bush will do everything in his power to protect them. That's one of the many reasons Bush needs to go away. Definitely won't see a strike anytime this year.

BTW, it's never the pilot's decision to strike. Management makes that decision for us. It's their call.

 

[miles otoole]

Re: Re: to strike or not to strike...

Probably never. Doesn't do any good for anyone to walk out on negotiations. Our company has done that several times already but it's all for show. Part of the silly game they're playing.

We're not just up against the company this time. We're up against a very unfavorable administration that will not allow a strike before this November's election. An administration that has influence with the Republican controlled NMB. XJet and CAL are both Texas based companies. Bush will do everything in his power to protect them. That's one of the many reasons Bush needs to go away. Definitely won't see a strike anytime this year.

BTW, it's never the pilot's decision to strike. Management makes that decision for us. It's their call.

You forgot to add Cheney as well. Get over it- =Bush/Cheney will be in off another 4.5 years-then it will be Kay Bailey in charge. Too much oil to be had.

 

[vmc-hound]

I am not sure about a walk out but what about a slow down...?Or will that effect the Cal agreement? I am (hopefully) a future xjt pilot and I am pulling for the guys and gals and NOT applying DURING the talks...I encourage everyone to do the same...I talked to the Cheif Pilot the other day they are looking for pilots pretty bad....dont settle for the 10 percent and profit sharing that is maybe 8% and 40% out for taxes...Not really a pay increase...mang needs to pay us all better!!!!

 

[Lear70]

Heard a nasty rumor over here at PCL. One of our MEC reps was rumored to have talked with one of the XJet MEC reps and was told that the NMB has told XJet that it will not release the pilots into self-help over wage demands that are higher than Comair's.

Any truth to this? If so, it's a dangerous precedent the NMB is setting by basically telling a labor group what the government thinks it's worth and that they can't have any more.

If it's not true, would be nice to put this one to bed over at PCL so our guys can focus in on a rumor-free negottiations start.

Good luck to you over there!

 

[davessn763]

We are our own worst enemies

Here are the biographies of the recent Bush appointed NMB membersfound at www.nmb.gov)

Edward J. Fitzmaurice, Jr., became chairman of the National Mediation Board effective July 1, 2003, having served as member since August 2, 2002. He was nominated to the NMB by President Bush on November 9, 2001, and confirmed by the United States Senate on August 2, 2002.

After graduating from Villanova University, Chairman Fitzmaurice served four and a half years as an Officer of Marines. He was designated a Naval Aviator, and served in the Dominican Republic and Vietnam as a Captain and Aircraft Commander, receiving several decorations including the Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal and 11 strike/flight Air Medals, the Presidential Unit Citation and Navy Unit Commendation.

Upon release from active duty, Chairman Fitzmaurice became a pilot for Braniff International and served as a domestic and international Captain, Co-Pilot, and Flight Engineer.

Simultaneously with piloting for Braniff, he attended the Southern Methodist University School of Law and was licensed by the State Bar of Texas in 1971. He was an associate with the firm of Kern, Wooley and Maloney representing Underwriters at Lloyd's in aviation-related matters and was Of Counsel to the labor law firm of James L. Hicks and Associates, both in Dallas, Texas.

Harry R. Hoglander was sworn in as a Board Member of the National Mediation Board on August 6th, 2002. He was nominated by President George Bush on July 1st, 2002, and was unanimously confirmed by the United States Senate on August 1st, 2002.

Prior to joining the Board, Mr. Hoglander served as a Legislative Specialist in the office of Congressman John Tierney of Massachusetts. His responsibilities included: Transportation (aviation, rail and maritime), Labor, Defense and Veterans Affairs.

Mr. Hoglander has an extensive background in the aviation industry. He flew as a Captain for Trans World Airline (TWA) and was rated to fly Boeing 707, 727, and 747's. Harry logged in excess of 20,000 hours of incident free pilot time in his 28-year career with TWA. In 1982 Harry was elected Master Chairman of TWA's Master Executive Council. Additionally, he was elected Executive Vice-President of the Air Line Pilots Association. After leaving TWA Mr. Hoglander was named Aviation Labor Representative to the United States Bi-Lateral Negotiating Team by then Secretary of State James Baker. Harry was deeply involved in the prevention of the introduction of "Cabotage" into the "Open Skies" aviation agreements.

Mr. Hoglander is a decorated, retired member of the United States Air Force. Mr. Hoglander enlisted in the Air Force and served as a gunner in a B-29 in the Korean War. Upon his return, with help from the GI bill, Harry earned his undergraduate degree and a commission in the US Air Force. He served with distinction in multiple active duty assignments. After leaving the Air Force, Harry joined the Massachusetts Air National Guard and qualified to fly both Jet Fighters and Bombers. He was appointed the director of plans for the 102nd Air Wing and retired as a Lieutenant Colonel.



Can you believe former airline pilots even an ALPA executive vice president would f***ck us like this?

 

[mckpickle]

It is well said above. The NMB controls when we strike.

The problem here is that time is an issue. If we hold out for too long we will reach the "sunset" date of the Capacity Purchase Agreement. We do NOT want to be negotiating a contract while the CPA is up for grabs. Why? Because the motherless whores at MESA will walk through the door, JO will offer ungrades and new flying but if a small pay decrease is taken. These guys are like sharks and with other regionasl out there willing to fly for a lower operating cost we stand a chance at loosing some of our flying.


So thats where we stand. We have the most leverage we will ever have right now. As time passes we loose that leverage.

We have know this for years. Comair knew this. This is why us COEX guys were so worked up about the whole MESA and CHQ deals for the last few years. This is how other airlines affect our pay.