To Scab Or Not To Scab

[trainerjet]

As others have alluded to, there does seem to be alot of guys throwing the word "scab" about quite loosely.

Also, to all those offering up the advice not to scab...I didn't realize there were any companies on strike offering anyone the opportunity.

 

[Rook]

You're right trainerjet.

But this is the internet and a public forum and if we're not talking about Scabbing/PFT/Gulfstream etc... then it would just be a bunch of Dork pilot threads. LOL!

Cheers.

Rook
600'AGL Autopilot on.
'WHEW!'

 

[trainerjet]

 

[35to1]

Just as I thought.......Blade went running!
Or perhaps his mom doesn't allow him to use the computer after 8:00pm!!! lol

 

[whereamI]

Scabs

The definition of the word is not the important issue. The degradation suffered by the industry as a whole is the problem. If you go to work for Freedumb or Republik you are thereby lowering the wages management has to offer regional pilots. So you want to feed the kids, a city bus driver makes upwards of $50,000 first year, what does a Freedumb Captain make? Is there any comparison, regarding safety and responsibility, of flying a jet and driving a bus? It may not be a true "brotherhood", but think about the long term livelihood of our industry before you take the job. I truely understand the love of flying for a living, but how can you make a living flying if the kid at T-bell makes more money than you. Definitely don't cross a picket line, but is working for one of the aforementioned companies much different? No matter how you label it, it isn't going to help your family, your career, or "our" industry.

 

[bvt1151]

"Definitely don't cross a picket line, but is working for one of the aforementioned companies much different?"

Yes it is very different. ALPA isn't a victim of scabs, it's a victim of economics, and all they can do is threaten members of the same profession who are not members of the "brotherhood."

"Our MEC, who art in ALPA,
Financially be thy game.
Our mission won, my paycheck come,
but only for members, our dues paying bretheren.
Give us, this contract, our daily raise.
Forget those fights ending in losses,
and destroy those who chose not to join with us.
And lead us not into mediation,
but separate us with scope.
For mine is the money, the power and the glory.
Forever and Ever.
Meeting adjurned."

Like lemmings off a cliff.

 

[flx757]

bvt1151,

FYI - AA, SWA, AirTran, UPS and Airborne Express, to name a few, are not members of ALPA but are union companies. I don't see ALPA threatening those members of the same profession who are not members of the "brotherhood".

It sounds as though you are just another of those lemmings, just poised on a different cliff.

 

[trainerjet]

It sounds as though you are just another of those lemmings, just poised on a different cliff.

Exactly. Like the one "guarded" by the RJDC?

 

[bvt1151]

Semantics.

Kindly replace the word "ALPA" with whatever aviation union you prefer in my previous post.

In response to you lemming remark...
How can you call me a lemming when I go against the mainstream. Do you know what a lemming is?

Ask the air traffic controllers of 1981 about following a union off the cliff, or any former eastern pilot. Don't get me wrong, unions are a necessary deterrent to management, however there comes a point when we are no longer fighting for whats needed, and we cross into the realm of greed. That crossing happened years ago.

For a union to survive, there has to be an enemy. Unions only live on conflict. If things were always peachy, there would never be unions. In light of that, if there is no enemy, they create one: RJDC, Freedom, Republic. These are not a threat to your safety, or even your job security. The senior captains making $300k a year are more of a threat to your job security, yet they are the ones in union management. Certainly they wouldn't declare themselves the enemy.

But the unions tell us what to be enraged over, and we eat it up. Just because you live in the US (or whatever country you live in) doesn't mean you believe everything the government tells you. Same holds true for Union management. If you think that thinking for myself makes me a lemming, I seriously challenge your definition of the word.

 

[flx757]

bvt1151,

It's not semantics at all. I don't hear anything from my union telling me what to be "enraged" over. Nor do I hear too many enraged Southwest pilots on this board. You make general statements about "aviation unions" and they automatically apply to every company.

It's these generalities and assumptions, along with your cute little "ALPA Prayer", which lead to my lemmings conclusion. Your next post does little to change that. I see you included the RJDC as one of the "enemies" that the "unions" created. You obviously have an excellent grasp of that whole situation. Your "independent thinking" has been repeated time and again on these and other boards. I can tell from your profile you have much experience with airlines, both union and non-union. Oh, right then, that must be me. Never mind. Then you must have generated your independent thoughts based on what you hear and read. Fair enough.

I think most pilots learned to think for themselves long ago. I wouldn't be patting myself on the back too hard for that feat.

It's not really my style to engage in p!ssing matches on message boards, since that accomplishes nothing. So you may have the last word if you feel you must. Adios.

 

[B1900DFO]

I agree that Alpa has its problems but do you think that without a strong union there would be any flying jobs that pay $200k plus. Would anybody be getting 14+ days off a month, retirement, jumpseats, etc. We suffer from an abundance of qualified pilots for a limited amount of jobs and in the absence of a strong trade union then we would be victims of supply and demmand. In other words the 777 captain at Delta would be lucky to break 100K and the Comair Crj captain would never break 100K because thousands of pilots would gladly do it for less. Alpa has its shortcomings but we are much better off with them. Read Flying the Line 1 & 2 to get a look at how it used to be without unions. Absolutely miserable work. My .02

 

[bvt1151]

B1900FO,
You bring up a good point. Unions are in direct conflict of supply and demand, which are the nature of economics. Eventually, unless the unions drastically change tactics, economics will snap back with bankrupcies and furloughs. We all know unions are necessary. Read my last post about the line pilot unions have crossed into. As far as your suggested reading, you listed an article found in a unions monthly magazine...come on!

flx757:

First of all, a pilot flying for Freedom is not my enemy. Second of all, I have nothing to do with Freedom, Republic or the RJDC, I just notice a trend. It all boils down to one thing. You don't want these pilots to be paid lass than you, because you want more money. I appreciate you allowing me the last word, and here it is:

Greed.

 

[trainerjet]

You don't want these pilots to be paid lass than you, because you want more money. I appreciate you allowing me the last word, and here it is:

Greed.

I don't work for Mesa, Freedom, Republic, CHQ, et.al.,, but anyone that can't see the danger of alter-ego, non-union companies is definitely in the wrong business. That is, unless this is the type of company you are interested in flying for. It may be the only choice you have in the future, if this is allowed to go unchecked.

That quote above shows just how out of touch from reality you truly are, if you believe this situation is about union greed. But you are entitled to your opinion.

And to flx757, you don't see any enraged AS pilots here, either.
(Our MEC hasn't told us what to be enraged about, or pointed out the enemy, yet.)

P.S. bvt, Flying The Line, Pts 1 & 2 is not an article in a unions monthly magazine. I suggest you do a little research.

 

[B1900DFO]

BVT,

Just so you know Flying The Line is not an article. Flying the Line is a book about the piloting profession since its inception. It was written by a historian, believe his last name is Hopkins (could be wrong on that) and was Not put out by Alpa as union propoganda. It is just a historian's view on the airline industry and does a good job of illustrating how screwed we would all be if there wasn't an Alpa. On a side note I'm curious; how is a delta captain making 330K a threat to my job security? I am glad to know that there are guys making that kind of money because I want to be one of them some day. Airlines are cyclical and if you think the success of an airline is directly proportional to labor costs then why aren't Champion, National, ATA, Atlas, Polar, Sun Country, etc, etc ruling the skies? Delta has always paid pilots well and they are considered to be one of the strongest carriers finacially. What about Southwest? Those pilots can make nearly 200K flying a 737...That's right up there with what a ual captain makes, I'm sure it is more than a Ual 737 captain makes post concessions. Are these highly paid Southwest captains a threat to my job security? The threat to my job security is piss poor management and a government that is intent on taxing this industry into bankruptcy.