To all you guys who've made it already:

[KingAirKiddo]

Falcon Capt.

Just curious to hear the story about your passengers being late 6-1/2 years ago leading to your current position...definitely sounds like a "right place at the right time" cliche Good thread everyone...right up there with "Unrealistic Expectations"...keep up the good work.

Regards,
KAK

 

[enigma]

Strikefinder

The money gets better. The schedule gets better. The accomodations get better. IOW, the job gets better. Life gets better. But the flying you're doing now is probably the best you'll ever get. Along with the big money, schedule, nice motel rooms, etc., you get: Flight attendents to tolerate, more vice-presidents than flight crew, push crews who never can find their headsets, gate agents who try and push every problem past the boarding door, and much much more.

I will try and follow honor your request. I will encourage the pilots in entry level jobs. I will also tell them to enjoy being able to yank and bank at will, because once they're dragging around a hundred fifty people they can't do that anymore. Once you reach the big show, all you'll see is 9000ft runways, radar vectors for a ten-mile final on an ILS, and 30 minute waits for a motel van. Your largest challenge will be the occasional slam dunk approach or a tight crossing restriction. The most challenging part of my flying day is taxiing around ORD, LAX, LGA,etc.

That's what those pilots mean when they say you'll never have as much fun. They've progressed to the point where they can separate the flying from the job. They probably think that their words are supportive. I have said the same words and didn't realize that they could be taken another way. Thanks for giving us your perspective.

Now here's a little something to motivate you. Once you get caught up on your bills, (we all went into debt to get ahead), then you can buy yourself a B55/Pitts/RV6,etc, and yank and bank on your own schedule. That's my plan, I haven't gotten there yet, but I'm working on it. In the mean time, I've got the best part time job I ever had. (I usually manage to hold a 15 day off line.) I get to work with good people and fly decent equipment. And even though hand flying a light twin is about as good as "flying" gets, the first time that you pass thru 10000ft and notice that the IVSI still shows over 5000fpm climb I guarantee you that you'll get goose bumps. No that climb wasn't in the Douglas, it was in a Lear. I do miss that airplane.

Hang in there. Life does get better. Remember to cherish those moments when you the only one who knows you made a bad landing is you.

regards,
8N

 

[empenage]

Strikefinder:

It is f$%k'en cool. Remember where you came from when you "make it". Be patient.

Just some advice from an old frieght dog.

Press on.

 

[dsee8driver]

Boy can I relate..

Brownies???!?!?!?

Strikefinder,

A few years back after getting my dream break, I found myself furloughed after groundschool. Between the furlough and a family tragedy I got a 135 job in NC flying for Tarheel Aviation. I flew a Caravan for UPS and a Navajo for Airborne. But I got a chance to fly the check run for a few weeks on a B95 TravelAire that went from Rocky Mount-Manassas-Rocky Mount in am and Rocky Mount-Baltimore-Rocky Mount in pm in 7.9999999999 hours. I had the same experience in BWI signature. I slept in their couches and ate their popcorn, but can't remmember the brownies. I remmember loading my Travelscare on the hot days and barely getting off the runway. I actually had the fields around the departure end ready in case anything went wrong.

Anyway, I remmember when I was told to study ard and go to college. I was told I was gona wish I did later in life. Well, now I wish I did then and now I go to ERAU distance learning program.

I was told when I get to the big jets I would wish I can return to the Cessnas. Now that I fly a big jet and have a family, I'm trying to find the time and dough to fly the small ones just for fun.

As hard as it is to believe this, you have already made it. Although you have higher hope and expectations for your career. I get the feeling you get up and look forward to flying your Baron around. I know I did back then and I still do now. You have the right attitude and you will succeed.

 

[TurboS7]

I say a lot of things on this board that really ticks people off. I really try to get guys to think outside of the box. People find security in being a certain way and playing a certain part without thinking why they are doing it. Now is the time to think about your career and what you really want to do with it. Yes right now you are experiencing the better part of aviation. I still remember well the days of flying checks in an Aztec (Baron is a better check hauler but you use what you have) fighting the ice, checking with a flashlight over and over again. Shooting approaches right down to 1800 RVR, and taxing in vis so low it was really tough single pilot. It does get easier from the flying perspective, jets are simple they get above the weather and with the automation now days they are a pleasure to fly. The worries of loosing an engine right after takeoff are replaced with labour disputes, contract negociations, senoirity, furloughs, marriage problems. Then they are laced with EEOC complaints from FA's, or worse your other gender first officers. Combine that with the occasional crew member that makes life miserable for you and welcome to the airlines. Being a real professional pilot is great but there are several rules for a succesful career.
1) The airlines are union for the most part, support your union and fellow pilots, stick together you can solve problems together. You don't have to be an activist just a realist.
2)Accept your fellow pilot and crewmember for who they are and what they are right now, always give them the benifit of the doupt.
3)What goes around comes around, if a crewmember goes out of his/her way to screw you, smile and live with it, their turn will come.
4)Always give unput to your captain, and if you are a captain always listen to your fo,no matter how bad the personal conflict becomes. Never just sit there.
5)If you have a crewmember that is doing something you don't like or you feel is unsafe. 1)sit down with him/her in a non-threatening enviroment and discuss it one on one. 2) If the problems persist get another crewmember if your an FO even another captain that the guys/girl respects and discuss it. 3)If that doesn't change the behavior go to your union standard committee. If you feel safety is a factor and time is of the essense submit a report to your safety people in writing , and give a copy to the offender. Basic stuff but you will have do deal with all those issues at least once in your career as a professional pilot.
6) Learn how to spell or always have a spell checker.

 

[GopherEvertt?]

Despite the usual complaints we all have about contracts, schedules, pay, etc., etc., rembember this:

Nothing can beat an office with a view that changes by the minute, chasing sunsets at 37000 ft.

 

[skytrucker]

2 more cents...

... now I can get a corn dog!!

Still doing the freight thing and some days it really sucks.

Just remember one thing. Somewhere, there is some guy that cleans toilets' for a living. When you put things in perspective, it's not so bad.

 

[FearlessFreep]

I would have to say that the big picture doesn't change. I don't know too much about what it's like to fly something heavily automated, I haven't been that lucky. From what I have seen things don't change much, all the basics apply no matter what the size of the aircraft.

As you move along in your career the biggest challenge that you might have is staying awake.

I have been freight doggin' for a while and performing while very fatigued is the hardest thing to do. When you move to multiple crew aircraft, you just have more company. Most everyone I fly with hand flys all approaches in all kinds of weather even though there might be a small modicum of automation installed in the aircraft.

Aviation is always challenging, there are just too many variables that change constantly to make it any other way. It is all what we want to make of it.

Good Luck & Have Fun!

 

[Freight Dog]

Strikefinder,

You know, we may have run into the same SWA pilot. When I was still at Ameriflight, I remember jumpseating on a SWA flight and the captain turned to me and tells me:"You know.. fly the sh*ttiest airplanes, have the sh*ttiest schedule, and the sh*ttiest pay, and some of the best flying you could ever do." I laughed it off thinking... "RIGHT! You got 3 outta 4 right." However, when I got to the regional of my choice, I had the schedule I wanted, I live where I wanted to live, and I still laugh about my freight hauling days with best friend who flies for the same airline whom I chased down so many ILS's in some of the crappiest weather at times of night when the normal world is asleep. Looking back, I wouldn't change it for anything. I treasure every single 135 hour in my book - from flying VFR in a C-210 to flying a Chieftain into 100-foot overcast and 1/2 mile viz. I was so ripe to get outta there and get into a regional, I couldn't wait to get outta there.
I look back on it, and I have to say, I kind of miss those days - they were the good ol' days. Now, I'm sitting in the left seat of a Dash 8 where everything is automated, I have an autopilot that will actually do everything except land the plane for me - functioning one at that too. Whaddya know!!
I have a first officer there to back me up. I just sit back and smile. I still miss the good ol' freight days. So right now, looking back and remembering what that SWA captain told me makes absolute perfect sense.

Hang in there buddy!

 

[Clownpilot]

Good Old Days

I never had any good old days.

All I can remember is hoping the toilet would get fixed so I could go.

And I liked the subs at the deli across the street.

And that Oprah seemed to have large weight fluctuations.

And birds never sing if its cold outside.

 

[SkyWestCRJPilot]

I started off like you in small planes then instructed for 900 hours and then flew 250 hours freight in a C210 and then 800 hours flying freight in a Chieftain. Then I got hired at a regional and flew the Brasilia for 220 hours. Now I'm in the CRJ. I've been flying it for 18 months now with about 900 hours in it and it's still great. I always remember flying every other airplane and wanting more speed or more power. Now I've got it. Flying around at 450 knots is just cool. Also you never hear that annoying beat of the props out there. Just jet silence. The Avionics are sweet. 6 EFIS screens presenting everything you ever wanted to know and more. A moving map showing you everything. Full Deice with a hot leading edge and the power to climb out of the worst. The airplane is so smart it tells you whats wrong with written text messages. "GEN1" for example. . .meaning your number 1 Generator quit. No worries you've got 2 more that put out so much electricity you could probably light a good size buidling with just one. The airplane's full of computers comparing data and checking if everything is okay. It's got 3 hydraulic systems, 6 hydraulic pumps. Redundency galore. It's great. No more wondering if that old piece of junk freight airplane is gonna kill you. This airplane is sweet. It's got everything you always wished a plane had. The CRJ is great and most of the newer jets have this stuff as well. It's great and it's worth it. I don't wish I could go back to flying freight. NO WAY. Flying around with 3 hours sleep the day before (because now it's night time when I fly). It was fun yes but this is so much bettter. I recently got rechecked out in a C172. It was a blast and I loved it. But after climbing out at 500 fpm and feeling like it took 5 minutes just to be able to turn crosswind I couldn't wait to get back in that RJ and climb out at 200 knots after takeoff and then eventually speed up to a .70 mach climb yielding a 400 knot groundspeed (In the Climb!). Then coming in for a landing with a 143 knot approach speed and greasing it on. No, I disagree with that DHL pilot. Flying that freight dog plane is okay but this is the funnest flying I've done so far in my career and I love it.

 

[IAHERJ]

It gets better! As much debating and complaining on this site is from the regional guys in here, let me be the one who offers the positive news. I recall a very recent morning, I woke up early in a large city in the Northeast bound for Newark, then on to Birmingham. It was cold, and raining and I sat in the left seat of the ERJ sipping my coffee and programming the ACARS and FMS. With a full flight of people walking down the jetbridge to board our small jet it became apparant to me that I take a lot for granted. I think we were the only regional type aircraft this morning using jetways as we are in most of the places we go. A little thing but the little things really add up. A few hours later we were leveling off at 35,000 feet and accellerating to Mach .78 for the 2 hour flight down to BHM. More coffee was served along with the cereal/bannana/muffin breakfast. Blue sky prevailed all the way down to the southland. 50 passangers and 2 jumpseaters from our big brother CAL joined us that morning. One pilot up front with us, and one F/A in the aft jumpseat helped out Express FA serve the morning offering. I like others tend to forget that a typical 4 day at COEX takes me through 3 hubs flying anywhere from Mazatlan, Mexico to Halifax, Nova Scotia. Soon we will be covering the lower 48, Canada, Mexico, and Central America with XR's all while having the latest of the latest in FMS units (dual on over half) and terrain mapping units along with ACARS units allowing teletype communications with the company for anything from weather diversions to ordering crew meals at the next stop. Could the pay be better? You bet! Will it? Yes! I'll break 60,000 this year without flying much overtime at all and never picking up a single trip on a day off. And that is based on payrates that are on an expired contract that is being worked on as we speak.

This post is as much for my benefit as it is yours. I think we all need to tell ourselves or someone how much we really love our jobs every once in a while or the union/seniority/political negitivity will overrun us.

Do I miss the piston twins and the KingAirs, sometimes. Mostly you will miss the people you worked with. I sit about once a week on a 777 or 767-400 jumpseat commuting home. I can't even recall the many stories I've sat through about their times flying commuters and all the great people they worked with. They always say I'll look back at the Brasilia and RJ as my fun days. At 27 I think it's time to start enjoying them now. I support my union 100% but you can also enjoy the work and the layovers without turning your back on the issues plaguing the industry. I consider myself very luckey to be where I am at the age I am. I wouldn't trade the experience for anything short of 3 supermodels in a hottub and....8787884 oh well, you get the picture.

Keep your chin up, it does get better. When you get to whatever your next level is, remember that you have the power to make it miserable or the most enjoyable time of your life.

IAHERJ
dba EWRERJ

 

[Strikefinder]

I hadn't any idea that my midnight grumblings would cause such a reaction, though I am very pleased that it has been overwhelmingly reassuring and positive. I feared after posting my comments that it would be construed as another disenchanted pilot whining about the topic du jour, and if anything be flamed off the board once and for all. Thanks everyone for the kind words.

I suppose the most difficult thing with the industry how it is now is not being able to look forward like we all did last year. I remember when I wore the flight instructor hat, and I remember the bad stuff that went with it, but I remember seeing the bright light at the end of the tunnel, and that sense of hope kept me going every day. My hard work *would* pay off, and I could see everything begin to fall into place perfectly.

Of course, the industry being what it is now, it's hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel, so it's easy to wallow in the frustrations of the present. I'm sure all of us who have been struggling lately (many more so than me) have had the blasphemous thought of throwing in the towel and doing something else with our lives, and I think we all need to have that reassurance that things will get better. I think many of your stories will help to keep the dream alive inside the rest of us.

The biggest part of the dream that is difficult to swallow is that someday, hopefully soon, the phone will ring with the good news. I'm sure I won't see it coming. But I'm glad I still have the thought every time the phone rings that maybe this is finally it. That little bit of hope keeps me pluggin' every day through the worst of it, since it sounds like the next step is awesome!

Thanks again for kickin' me in the butt, folks...

 

[TurboS7]

When I got out of college I had 1200 hours and a fresh A+P certificate. I acutally had a good job in Texas but my wife to be was from Illinois so I moved to Illinois to be around her. She was part of a musical family that traveled all over the world. I applied to UAL and went through the hiring process, but in 1978 things started to get bad and my "chance" slippped between my fingers. My father in law helped finance an Aztec which I used to fly the family arund on the weekends and used it to start a 135. As everything goes in life went grew to a 12 airplane operation.I turned down another job at the time to fly a Lear 24 . If I kew what I know now I wouldn't have done that . By 1982 three years later the airlines started really hiring but I was too deep into business to even consider it. So it will turn around and when it does you will know it. Until then survive and enjoy what you do. I fly a 737-800 out of BWI and have watched a check Baron coming and going as we leave and taxi it. For all I know it could be you-hang in there.

 

[IAHERJ]

You know my first officer and I were discussing this subject today and how dismal the industry looks right now for guys trying to get on with airlines. He is one of the bottom 30 on our seniority list of over 1800. Although he will most likely not get furloughed he moved back in senority and is on reserve in a base he does not live in. He has a great attitude about the whole thing. We agreed that there are 2 types of pilots out there. The first type of pilot is in it for the money. They probably had a parent or neighbor who influenced them to go this route and deep inside they couldn't care less if they lost the job if there was another paying job out there at the same pay level. Then there is the true aviation nut pilot. The pilot that started out young hanging out at airports, reading magazines like flying etc. Then went through one of many routes and got into a cockpit after college for a living. This pilot is also the pilot who can finish a 4 day trip and driving out of the airport parking lot will crack his window as an old 727 roars overhead. This type of pilot will stick with aviation through times like we are dealing with now. These guys stuck it out in the 80's and the early 90's flying airplanes around for companies they really didn't care for because they really loved the job.

When you meet a pilot in the second group, you can usually tell within minutes which type of pilot he/she is. Interviewers pick up on this as well and I think the starter of this thread possesses this attribute. By default you will be successful in your aviation endevours due to your love and commitment to the industry.

IAHERJ

dba EWRERJ

 

[banned username 2]

Re: Falcon Capt.

Falcon Capt., just curious to hear the story about your passengers being late 6-1/2 years ago leading to your current position...definitely sounds like a "right place at the right time" cliche

It was totally a "Right place, Right time" deal... I'll try to condense as much as possible...

I was flying charter in a Lear 35, and was on a trip somewhere in Virginia... My passengers were running over an hour late, it was a georgeous day outside, so I decided to go hang out by the Lear...

Well one of my current employers planes pulled up and after they got the pax on their way, one of the pilots wandered over to me and started talking (he recognized the plane, since we were both based at the same airport)... We shot the bull for a few minutes and he mentions they might be hiring, and says he just happens to be flying with the new Department Manager that day... Well I look across the ramp and the Department Manager is making his way over... He comes over and we talk, and he also mentions the possible hiring in the near future... I offer him a resume, he says "Sure, lets take a look" He looks over my resume for a minute or two and says you have just the kind of quals we are looking for! I about crapped my drawers, I had never even applied to this place because I had always heard "If you don't have 10,000 hours, a lot of grey hair and a pocket full of type ratings, forget about it".... Here I was 28 years old, 4,300 hours and one type rating...

Well needless to say, I took that as a "GO" signal and kept in very close touch with them over the six+ months... When the hiring started I was picked up in that group...

Here are the strange coincidences....

Our scheduled departure time was nearly an hour before their arrival time, if my pax were ontime, I wouldn't have ever met them...

Just 2 weeks before I had gotten so fed up at my current job that I started carrying resumes with me... Had I not had one, maybe he wouldn't have been so interested...

The original pilot who came over, I now know is typically pretty quiet and I have yet seen him go across a ramp to talk to someone he doesn't know...

Our Department manager only flew about 50 hours a year (if that)average back then... maybe one trip a month or so... Sheer luck he was on this trip this particular day!

If the weather had been crummy I would have been in the pilot lounge with my co-pilot... These guys were staying overnight, so they never went into the pilot lounge...

"Right Place at the Right Time"?... I'd say so... Did it get me the job? No. It did get my resume into the hand of the guy who mattered...

Things happen for a reason... Like I said earlier, sometimes we don't know until after the facts play out... You've heard of the "error chain" in accident causes, how if any one of the events (links in the chair) didn't happen the accident wouldn't have occured? Well had any one of the above events not happened I would be somewhere else... Maybe for better, maybe for worse... nobody will ever know...

I wasn't all too happy with my passengers for being over an hour late... that was until these guys pulled up and wanted to chat... Amazing how them being late really didn't bother me anymore!

Fly Safe!

 

[FL717]

Right place at the right time.... boy isn't that the truth. Things do happen for a reason, and boy did your boat come in Falcon.

Every one of my flying jobs... and I mean EVERY one, from flight instructing to my current airline, was an opportunity presented because of someone I met at the previous job. Granted.. I had to interview and do the "dog and pony" to actually get hired, but if it wasn't for networking, I either wouldn't have known about that job/position or wouldn't have had the recomendation.

Know who your friends are, and keep them..... and stay off message boards. Now get off the internet and go outside.

 

[KingAirKiddo]

Thanks for sharing...

Falcon Capt.,

I always enjoy hearing these types of stories. I happened upon my current job in much the same manner...

You're right in saying that everything happens for a reason. Glad it worked out so well for you.

Thanks again...

KAK

 

[Clownpilot]

I hope you don't mind

I have read all these posts with great enjoyment so I hope you guys don't mind me throwing in with my own story. I believe it is on topic but it isn't exactly aviation related so I hope I don't upset the die-hards.

A few months ago I was hanging around doing nothing when my then girlfriend mentioned we had been invited to a bar-b-que by a work acquaintence of hers. Naturally, since I didn't know her I wasn't too excited about going but I reluctantly agreed. We arrived at the house about 2 PM and we did some cursory socializing and glad handing. Eventually, we wandered outside where they were preparing to start cooking the food. Just burgers and dogs you understand. Anyway, as some guys do I wandered over top the bar-b-que to inspect the charcoal. It had been properly lit and stoked. A minor point I know. Anyway the host had just put on the first few burgers when suddenly someone called from the inside that there was a phone call for her. As luck would have it I was the closest one to the area at the time and she asked if I might watch the burgers until she got back. I said sure no problem. Well, anyway one thing led to another and the next thing I knew I was cooking everybody's burgers and dogs to perfection. The compliments just kept pouring in about the job I was doing. A man I didn't know wandered up and mentioned how good his burger was and how enthusiastic I seemed about my task.

Well, you probably see what's coming next. He gave me his card and asked me to give him a call on Monday. I didn't think much of it at the time. Anyhow, as it turned out, he was the owner of 3 Burger and Shake restaurants in the area. I called him on Monday and he asked me to come into the store on Tuesday morning. I did and was hired on the spot as assistant burger preparer at Burger and Shake #2. I couldn't believe the luck of being in the right place at the right time.

I shudder to think what might have happened had I gone with my original inclination not to attend the bar_b_que at all. I don't expect many of you will have my kind of luck but I'm not bragging or trying to rub it in anybody's face, I'm just saying that being in the right place at the right time can really pay off sometimes.

 

[TDTURBO]

I really enjoyed reading all of these threads, it kind of makes me envious that I could have been a starving professional pilot working his way through the ranks but nobody can, "ICE", a thread like Clown Pilot. Your cynicism is unmatched by even the most hard core pessimist.