To all Mesa Hopefuls

[rickair7777]

Off their website ::

• 1,500 hours fixed-wing total flight time
• 1,000 hours fixed-wing PIC time, or 500 hours PIC time and 500 hours SIC time in a turbojet
• 1,000 hours fixed-wing turbine time

This only applies to RJ drivers if you have really good inside connections...otherwise you better have fighter or heavy time.

 

[cale42]

Pilotontherise couldn't have said it better.. pilots refuse to look outside the industry. Things have gone to crap everywhere.. for those who care for a little interesting reading... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States

for those that don't care to read I will summarize.. median(thats half above and half below) household income in the US in 04 was $43,389.

That means that a fourth year Mesa captain is already in the upper half in the US. Upper half of earnings in the country is pretty good for a 27 year old.

Oh and lets say for example Rickair is right and Mesa is the career goal(I completely disagree with this given the prevalence of hiring at every single major carrier that isn't named UAL, AA, NW, DL, or USAIR as well as every fractional and most corporate flight departments) but that point aside a current career Mesa captain(20 yr CR9 capt if they have really been there for the haul) is making 100K a year. Which puts him in top 15 percentile of all Americans.. oh and by the way he is probably only working 14 days a month to do that.

So lets summarize... a career pilot at the supposed crappiest airline out there still earns in the top 15 percent of all wage earners and works 6-8 days a month less.

man what a brutal lifestyle.. how shall we cope.

cale

 

[ttuite]

But mesa PIC doesn't seem to help a lot of folks for whatever reason. The only person who should got to mesa is someone with VERY strong connections at a major who just needs the minimum turbine time to meet the hiring requirements at said major.

Are you on Crack? All kinds of people are leaving Mesa for CO JB SWA, F9, A-tran, FedX, UPS etc, etc. You need to pay more attention to reality and quit writing when you have been drinking.

 

[rickair7777]

Pilotontherise couldn't have said it better.. pilots refuse to look outside the industry. Things have gone to crap everywhere.. for those who care for a little interesting reading... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States

for those that don't care to read I will summarize.. median(thats half above and half below) household income in the US in 04 was $43,389.

That means that a fourth year Mesa captain is already in the upper half in the US. Upper half of earnings in the country is pretty good for a 27 year old.

Oh and lets say for example Rickair is right and Mesa is the career goal(I completely disagree with this given the prevalence of hiring at every single major carrier that isn't named UAL, AA, NW, DL, or USAIR as well as every fractional and most corporate flight departments) but that point aside a current career Mesa captain(20 yr CR9 capt if they have really been there for the haul) is making 100K a year. Which puts him in top 15 percentile of all Americans.. oh and by the way he is probably only working 14 days a month to do that.

So lets summarize... a career pilot at the supposed crappiest airline out there still earns in the top 15 percent of all wage earners and works 6-8 days a month less.

man what a brutal lifestyle.. how shall we cope.

cale

14 days a month at MESA??? Dude you need to not speak of those things which you do not know...

$100K/year? First spend a year at mesa, THEN talk about how much you're going to get paid after 19 MORE years at mesa...very, very few people there feel that they could last that long; most are setting timelines by which to terminate their flying careers if FEDEX doesn't call soon.

You are in for a rude awakening some day...

 

[LAFrequentflyer]

I may have missed the point - correct me if I did...

R777 is seeing an increasingly large number of pilots stay at the regionals - by their own choice or industry dynamics. Its a disturbing treand and he is trying to point out what is happening...

-LAFF

 

[cale42]

LA.. that is exactly his point.. and my point.. and many other peoples here is that it is not nearly as bad of a career as some people make it out to be.

Rickair.. I'm not questioning if I would want to stay at Mesa for 20 yrs.. I'm just saying that the numbers add up such that it isn't exactly a disastrous career.

The sooner pilots let go of this concept of 300K a year to fly 9 days a month the better off we will be. Because quite honestly if you like to fly.. making 150K a year to fly 18 days a month really isn't the raw deal some pilots make it out to be... find me one other job in America that lets you do that. Add on liking what you do and you've got a helluva deal

cale

 

[lowlycfi]

14 days a month at MESA??? Dude you need to not speak of those things which you do not know...

How is this not right? I've had 14 days off per month the last two months and will have at least that many for October?

 

[rickair7777]

I may have missed the point - correct me if I did...

R777 is seeing an increasingly large number of pilots stay at the regionals - by their own choice or industry dynamics. Its a disturbing treand and he is trying to point out what is happening...

-LAFF

You are correct.

If a few sub-standard, self-esteem-challenged people are sincerely willing to fly shiny RJ's for fast-food wages for the rest of their lives, then there is nothing I or anyone else can do about that...they are going to dilute the profession whether we like it or not.

But there are plenty of newbies in general aviation and "the academies" who expect to be listening to their ipod on the flight deck of a 747 in 18 months or so...these folks have been sold a bill of goods, and they often reinforce the illusion in their own minds by denial (look at cale). If at least some of them can be educated a little and steered away from the worst situations in the industry (ie mesa) then we will all be better off.

Every aspiring regional pilot should pick the two worst companies in the industry (according to his research) and rule them out as prospective employers. This would force market forces to go to work...

 

[rickair7777]

How is this not right? I've had 14 days off per month the last two months and will have at least that many for October?

Oh come on...that sounds like typical MAG self-delusion: The other guy said WORK 14 days/month...that means 16-17 days off. Be honest now, how many mesa pilots get 16 days off? The vast majority of lines are 10-12 days off (9 for reserve).

And you have to allow for commuting...it is not just a "privelege", it is a way off life. One of the historical benefits of the airline life is being able to live where you like. Remember, the majority of airline hubs are in pretty crappy locals.

 

[rickair7777]

LA.. that is exactly his point.. and my point.. and many other peoples here is that it is not nearly as bad of a career as some people make it out to be.

Rickair.. I'm not questioning if I would want to stay at Mesa for 20 yrs.. I'm just saying that the numbers add up such that it isn't exactly a disastrous career.

The sooner pilots let go of this concept of 300K a year to fly 9 days a month the better off we will be. Because quite honestly if you like to fly.. making 150K a year to fly 18 days a month really isn't the raw deal some pilots make it out to be... find me one other job in America that lets you do that. Add on liking what you do and you've got a helluva deal

cale

After you account for the training costs, the dues paying, the age 60 forced retirement (losing 5-10 years of earning potential), and the significant income tax penalty associated with the airline business (most pilots don't even THINK about the HUGE raping they get on taxes) I feel these are reasonable numbers, depending on aircraft size:

CA
180-250K
15 days/month

FO
80-170K
15 days/month

Cargo guys can make lots more, because their revenue stream justifies it. Any pilot who thinks of himself as a mere W-2 wage-earner is an UTTER FOOL. We are jsut like the sea captains and longshoreman of old (and today)...we need to get a PIECE OF THE ACTION THAT WE MAKE POSSIBLE!

 

[lowlycfi]

Oh come on...that sounds like typical MAG self-delusion: The other guy said WORK 14 days/month...that means 16-17 days off. Be honest now, how many mesa pilots get 16 days off? The vast majority of lines are 10-12 days off (9 for reserve).

Calm down. I wasn't quoting him/her, I was quoting you and I may have misread the post. My lines last two bid periods have been 12 and 13 days off respectively. The bid periods have run Jul 30-Aug 26, Aug 27-Sep 23. Aug 1-31 I had 14 days off, Sep 1-30 I have 14 off as well. Not being delusional, just trying to clear up what you said.

 

[siucavflight]

14 days a month at MESA??? Dude you need to not speak of those things which you do not know...

$100K/year? First spend a year at mesa, THEN talk about how much you're going to get paid after 19 MORE years at mesa...very, very few people there feel that they could last that long; most are setting timelines by which to terminate their flying careers if FEDEX doesn't call soon.

You are in for a rude awakening some day...

How long did you work at Mesa rickair?

 

[ballsdeep123]

Pilotontherise couldn't have said it better.. pilots refuse to look outside the industry. Things have gone to crap everywhere.. for those who care for a little interesting reading... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States

for those that don't care to read I will summarize.. median(thats half above and half below) household income in the US in 04 was $43,389.

That means that a fourth year Mesa captain is already in the upper half in the US. Upper half of earnings in the country is pretty good for a 27 year old.

Oh and lets say for example Rickair is right and Mesa is the career goal(I completely disagree with this given the prevalence of hiring at every single major carrier that isn't named UAL, AA, NW, DL, or USAIR as well as every fractional and most corporate flight departments) but that point aside a current career Mesa captain(20 yr CR9 capt if they have really been there for the haul) is making 100K a year. Which puts him in top 15 percentile of all Americans.. oh and by the way he is probably only working 14 days a month to do that.

So lets summarize... a career pilot at the supposed crappiest airline out there still earns in the top 15 percent of all wage earners and works 6-8 days a month less.

man what a brutal lifestyle.. how shall we cope.

cale

Cale you're right by saying that the airlines aren't the only careers that have suffered over the last few years, but you're wrong on your analysis of what the airlines should or could be.

Pilots were paid to be away from their homes and families. Another thing is 100 dollars an hour doesn't mean 100K a year, nor does it mean your company is going to treat you with respect. Not without work rules.

Also, I would hope that pilots got paid better than most other working people. There's a lot more at stake that's for sure.

You're defending Mesa and you haven't worked there, nor have you worked at any airline for that matter. That makes all the difference in the world. It is not something you can understand without experiencing it yourself. It's like someone explaining an NDB approach and never flying one yourself. You're just not going to understand it by reading books or in your case reading flightinfo.com or other internet sites that tell you how much other airline pilots are getting paid.

 

[rickair7777]

How long did you work at Mesa rickair?

Too long. I really envy the mesa new hires that are showing up at SKW after bailing on mesa during IOE...that's the way to work mesa to your advantage!

 

[skiandsurf]

I worked for Mesa "back in the day". It was an interesting 3 months. Day 1 of ground school there were 8 of us new hires. At the end of the first break, we were down to 7 .....this still on day 1. By the time I quit (month 3), half of our class had quit. 4 gone, 4 still there in only 3 months.

My advice, only go to a place that you wouldnt mind staying at for a carreer.

Dont sell yourself short. Thinking that $100,000 is great with 13 days off a month. Remember, you have to live your life different than those "regular job people".....No drugs. No showing up to work drunk. Gone for holidays and birthdays. Missing your kids birthday parties and soccer games. Checkrides. Medicals. And then when you turn 60, no job.

Choose wisely.

 

[greg52083]

My advice, only go to a place that you wouldnt mind staying at for a carreer.

Bad advise if your 30 or under. You have at least 30 yrs of fly left at a min, so another words your still be at a reg. in 2036??? Dont think so..
The next wave is almost here, it will be similar to 98 and 99, and PIC turbine is what you will need to ride the next wave up.

Internships and Daddies who are captains help 2

 

[ballsdeep123]

Bad advise if your 30 or under. You have at least 30 yrs of fly left at a min, so another words your still be at a reg. in 2036??? Dont think so..
The next wave is almost here, it will be similar to 98 and 99, and PIC turbine is what you will need to ride the next wave up.

Internships and Daddies who are captains help 2

The thing is you can still go to a respectable carrier that will treat and pay you better than Mesa and still upgrade relatively soon. The way I look at it is choose somewhere that meets your long term goals and also choose a place that you could be happy at if the music stops tomorrow. Mesa might not be upgrading people in a year or two forever and hopefully nothing happens to you that makes you a lifer or you're stuck. Or if you're not a lifer now you have to make a lateral move and end up at the bottom of the seniority list again.

 

[siucavflight]

My advice, only go to a place that you wouldnt mind staying at for a carreer.

So if my goal were to fly for UAL or UPS how would you suggest getting the required time to apply there. Or do you think that on my cover letter I should just put I know that I only have 2000 hours with 0 PIC turbine but the regionals just didnt seem like the right fit for me, but please consider my resume, my friends at flightinfo.com feel like this is the best way to do this.

The thing is a lot of guys at Mesa plan on doing it two years tops, then moving on to something like corporate, and having the 1000 hours turbine PIC that Mesa can offer you in the two years will make you hirable to almost any corporate department, or maybe even Netjets. What some of you guys dont understand is that the people going there know that it is a stepping stone, and are not expecting much out of it, Mesa is using them, and they are using Mesa.

 

[dooork]

The thing is a lot of guys at Mesa plan on doing it two years tops, then moving on to something like corporate, and having the 1000 hours turbine PIC that Mesa can offer you in the two years will make you hirable to almost any corporate department, or maybe even Netjets. What some of you guys dont understand is that the people going there know that it is a stepping stone, and are not expecting much out of it, Mesa is using them, and they are using Mesa.[/quote]

The thing is this,the thing is that....blaa blaa blaa. The real thing is..if you dont work here then STFU! The thing is this.....You all sucked at some point..normally in the start...maybe it took you 3,4,5 contracts until you rose to the Great and Powerfull ranks of PDT,or a Comair. We are on contract #2.
That is all that needs to be said about this thing!

 

[DirkkDiggler]

3. Pay is not nearly as bad as everyone makes it out to be.. lets compare it to say Skywest.. Mesas first year pay is actually better than Skywest, and a 3 yr CRJ capt at Mesa makes 2 bucks an hour less than the same guy at Skywest.

You obviously don't know anything about work rules. i.e. rigs and guarantees and cancellation pay and deadhead pay and overblock pay and other such gems. Mesa's pay is significantly lower than Skywest's or any other company with such rigs and contract goodies in place. You may want to do more homework here before you think you've walked into a well paid regional job. I would venture to say that while a 2nd year f/o at Mesa may make 2 or 3 bucks an hour less than AWAC, their W-2 at the end of the year will be close to 10 or 15 thousand dollars less. No exaggeration.

 

[FlyinScotsman]

The thing is a lot of guys at Mesa plan on doing it two years tops, then moving on to something like corporate, and having the 1000 hours turbine PIC that Mesa can offer you in the two years will make you hirable to almost any corporate department, or maybe even Netjets. What some of you guys dont understand is that the people going there know that it is a stepping stone, and are not expecting much out of it, Mesa is using them, and they are using Mesa.

The thing is this,the thing is that....blaa blaa blaa. The real thing is..if you dont work here then STFU! The thing is this.....You all sucked at some point..normally in the start...maybe it took you 3,4,5 contracts until you rose to the Great and Powerfull ranks of PDT,or a Comair. We are on contract #2.
That is all that needs to be said about this thing!

QX is working on contract #2 also. HHMM!!!!!!! Disscuss.............

 

[rickair7777]

The thing is you can still go to a respectable carrier that will treat and pay you better than Mesa and still upgrade relatively soon. The way I look at it is choose somewhere that meets your long term goals and also choose a place that you could be happy at if the music stops tomorrow. Mesa might not be upgrading people in a year or two forever and hopefully nothing happens to you that makes you a lifer or you're stuck. Or if you're not a lifer now you have to make a lateral move and end up at the bottom of the seniority list again.

EXACTLY! The prospects of the regional industry would be significantly improved for all concerned if every newbie picked two the worst two regionals (according to his research) and simply refused to work there! There are plenty of other jobs available...try to find one that would serve as a suitable plan B if you you don't make it to the 777 by age 28.

 

[rickair7777]

Bad advise if your 30 or under. You have at least 30 yrs of fly left at a min, so another words your still be at a reg. in 2036??? Dont think so..
The next wave is almost here, it will be similar to 98 and 99, and PIC turbine is what you will need to ride the next wave up.

But what if you miss the wave? They might hire that F-18 pilot instead of you, after all he's got real leadership experience, a masters degree, and is a ranked amatuer triathlete...your only claim to fame is the Doom3 championship at your crashpad (and being a little overweight)...

Or maybe you'll catch the NEXT wave after that...you'll have 14,000 turbine PIC by then so you should be able to pull it off. Only problem is you're 43 years old and a super-senior RJ captain...are you really going to start all over for $30K and commute to reserve in EWR? The wife's gonna LOVE that sh*t...

 

[pgcfii2002]

I worked for Mesa "back in the day". It was an interesting 3 months. Day 1 of ground school there were 8 of us new hires. At the end of the first break, we were down to 7 .....this still on day 1. By the time I quit (month 3), half of our class had quit. 4 gone, 4 still there in only 3 months.

My advice, only go to a place that you wouldnt mind staying at for a carreer.

Dont sell yourself short. Thinking that $100,000 is great with 13 days off a month. Remember, you have to live your life different than those "regular job people".....No drugs. No showing up to work drunk. Gone for holidays and birthdays. Missing your kids birthday parties and soccer games. Checkrides. Medicals. And then when you turn 60, no job.

Choose wisely.

Where did you go after bailing from Mesa? Would your new employer frown if you only spent 3 months there?

 

[b19]

The Strike is coming sooner than you think

Mesa's contract is up in a year, and the pilots there hate JO so much they will vote to strike and stay out just for revenge. You can't believe how angry Mesa pilots are. The majors are going to start pulling their contracts because they know service is going from the toilet to the sewer. During negotiations I wouldn't be suprised to see half their fleet grounded on any given day, and most of it at out stations. It will be chaos.

So maybe it will be good experience, to be there and join the fight. It's going to get ugly fast, so hurry up and don't miss the party.

 

[skiandsurf]

Where did you go after bailing from Mesa? Would your new employer frown if you only spent 3 months there?

I went to WestAir (the Original west coast United Express), that eventually turned in to ACA/I-Air. Here is the best part. When I interviewed at Mesa (1989) they only gave me 4 days notice to quit my old job and start class. They said "if you cant be here on monday, we will get someone else". So when I got hired at WestAir, I gave Mesa 4 days notice. The Chief Pilot complained about the short notice. I told him that was all Mesa offered my old boss. F*&^ Mesa.

As far as frowning on 3 months with the company. I dont think anyone in this business really cares. They see it that you are moving on to bigger or better, and not just sitting idle.

When I-Air closed down, I went to NetJets. Best move ever.

For you guys that think "I am going to Mesa for a couple of years then off to Fed Ex or UAL......." Think again. Thats what we all think. Ask your 10 year RJ captain why he is still at the regionals? Everyone has a story or a reason. we all thought Mesa, ACA, TSA.....was just a 2 maybe 3 year stop. Not always the case.

( FYI....I went to Mesa when nobody knew who they were.....prior to internet chat boards.....I had 2500tt and 200multi.....Flight Instructed for 3 years....and was trying to get on with WestAir or Wings West and Skywest was my 3rd choice ...( yeah a west coast preference)...spent the next 3 years as an FO on the J31....)

 

[rickair7777]

Mesa's contract is up in a year, and the pilots there hate JO so much they will vote to strike and stay out just for revenge. You can't believe how angry Mesa pilots are. The majors are going to start pulling their contracts because they know service is going from the toilet to the sewer. During negotiations I wouldn't be suprised to see half their fleet grounded on any given day, and most of it at out stations. It will be chaos.

So maybe it will be good experience, to be there and join the fight. It's going to get ugly fast, so hurry up and don't miss the party.

I agree wholeheartedly; my one and only regret leaving mesa was that I was going to miss the strike and my daily opportunities to break it off in JO's @ss (reduced thrust??? What's that??? Start the APU. Oh that's right, we're not supposed to use it. Turn it off. On second thought we might need it...turn it back on again....)

 

[rickair7777]

Where did you go after bailing from Mesa? Would your new employer frown if you only spent 3 months there?

The other employers fully understand. SKW is filling up with 3-7 month mesa "veterans".

 

[siucavflight]

Or maybe you'll catch the NEXT wave after that...you'll have 14,000 turbine PIC by then so you should be able to pull it off. Only problem is you're 43 years old and a super-senior RJ captain...are you really going to start all over for $30K and commute to reserve in EWR? The wife's gonna LOVE that sh*t...

There lies the problem, you are married!

 

[Cloudroller]

NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! YOU JUST DON'T GET IT!!!! Regionals USED TO BE stepping stones....but nowdays with 90 seat RJ's flown for 19 seat wages they are replacing the airplanes and eliminating the mainline jobs that those pilots aspire to! Checkhaulers DO NOT replace mainline jobs (plus they learn a lot).

Mesa is NOT a stepping stone!!! It is a career destination, but the vast majority of those young SUCKERS don't understand that! JO is playing them BIG TIME...they're all willing to do anything for turbine time, but 8 years down the road they realize that that doesn't get them anything anymore. BTW, JO doesn't like 10+ year pilots on his property, he wants you to leave at that point. If you get hired by a major, great, but most don't...and JO wants you to leave anyway! (he usually gets what he wants). I know dozens of mesa pilots who just hung it up, went back to Peoria and applied for dad's old job at the local mill. Or got married and became full-time moms.

My last year at mesa saw my seniority move less than ten numbers/month...out of 1900 pilots. That means mesa captains are not leaving...which means captains are not getting hired by majors! After you factor in retirements, medicals, military leave, and career changers maybe 1-2 captains/month were getting major jobs!

Rick - Mesa is a stepping stone along with every other regional operation. I know lots of CA's that have left Mesa for SWA, AWA, JBlue, FedEX, UPS, Cathey Pacific. Sounds like you were hanging with the wrong crowd. I also know plent of FO's that left for Skywest when the Jets left DEN- They all would be Ca's at Mesa now.