Tipping

[patq1]

I fly corporate and charter and tip line guys in certain places, especially for lav service.

What kind of tipping do any of you do?

I've discovered if you don't tip the guys in Aspen you can pretty much forget getting any kind of service.

I always tip the line guys for lav service, helping with the passengers' bags, bringing out the catering, rides to the hotel etc. The guys or girls appreciate it and remember the airplanes and crews who do and don't tip. It can make the difference in the quality of future service from acceptable to outstanding. Of course my chief pilot was the cheapest guy around. He would always accuse the rest of us of claiming tips on our expense reports that we didn't give. If anything, we claimed less than we actually gave out. Of course this is the same guy that tipped a handler in Trinidad, who did a tremendous job, twenty dollars and thought he was making him rich!

As far as receiving tips as a charter pilot, it's generally not part of the job so if you expect it you will be disappointed more often than not. As we use to say it was never expected but always appreciated. Some customers tipped, most did not, but they all got the same good service.

Pat

 

[Timebuilder]

I appreciate all of your comments.

Having worked in a multitude of jobs, I know when it is appropriate to tip, and as I said, I DO tip. For the person who asked the question about knowing that the salary was below industry standard: no, I didn't know that. And it isn't 20% below industry standard, it's lower. I did know that it would be roughly the same small wage that I had earned as a flight instructor.

Some of you talked about the dynamic of loyalty. My boss, not the owner of the aircraft that I mentioned, has just hired the ONLY furloughed airline pilot to fly as an FO in the Lear.


Yes, Jim, I was very happy about being hired. All of the other SIC's are hired at the same experince level, and perhaps that guarantees that we will have to remain until we become more marketable. Also, I hope that you were just taking a friendly shot at me when you said that I had "pasted it all over the board" when I was hired. I made a post to counter all of the bad news that has permeated the aviation industry in the past year, and to share some small good fortune with the folks here in this community. Perhaps I should refrain from sharing when I make the next step, eh? I still love the flying. Some of the people? Well, some of them I could do without.

On the subject of receiving tips, when I flew charter, I NEVER expected tips. If I got one, it was a bonus...just another case of beer, or if it was the Tunica crowd, perhaps the tip got me a swanky night on the town with a date. Tipping was greatly appreciated, but not expected in any way. My passengers got the same good service whether they flew the Lear and tipped, or flew the Baron and didn't tip. I wasn't getting rich flying, but I was compensated fairly by my company. I fly because I love to fly, especially the old Lear I was in at the time. If I want tips, I'll drive a limo.

It's obvious that this is one of those times where I am failing to make myself clearly understood. I'll make one last attempt.

I don't expect tips on a regular basis from anyone when I fly charter. Having vivid memories of being on the giving end, I see that many situations pass by when others should be exhibiting the same kind of giving that I did. If I were the owner that I described above, I would feel embarassed to leave the aircraft every time over eight months without giving at least one monetary showing of gratitude for the extra level of service that his shamefully low wage still provides. Flying on a holiday weekend, with the jet loaded with bags and kids, all complaining? Nada. Christmas or "the holidays"? Nope. No one stands by the door with a hand out, but every one of the captains I fly with comment on this guy's failure to throw a few "pence" to the servants. You have to remember, that I see this situation from BOTH sides, having "been there, done that".

While you are correct in noting that I opted in to the job position as it was, I should point out that there are a number of things that were discussed at hiring that have yet to come to pass. No need to go into all of that here, but there was a supposition at the interview that I would do "very well" because of regular overtime flying, and that has happened once, and only one day. So, as a side note to the naysayers, I opted for something that I'm not yet getting. But that isn't my point.

My point is that whenever I receive extraordinary service, I recognize it in the accepted manner. My comments are meant to point out that others who have this ability to make such recognitions fail to do so on a regular basis.

Since when did it become such bad form to complain about the actions of dullards and cretins?

With all of the fruitless talk about scope, RJ's, ALPA, and the like, I'm surprised that a complaint about a simple lack of civility would be so roundly critcized. I will try to learn from this.

 

[Hawker rider]

Back to the "art" of tipping..

I honestly do believe that tipping somebody else then a waiter, etc. will degrade what service they perform on their job.

I've seen it a few times now that once I tip a lineguy he thinks he did a great job ( which they DO by the way) and that he's done. If we need some kind of other service somehow it's like you are dragging them away from the fire and out into the cold. Needless to say that what they do is also a job, mabe a means to a better one, but they also signed for it, and that means that the FBO is providing the service to drop the crew of at the hotel, or give you that courtesy car. It probably isn't one of the lineguys stepping further then his job description.

Now I AM a tipper, and I for one do not get it reimbursed on my expense account. I probably could, but I see so much people take advantage of non-receipt expenses that I feel they just have to come out of my pocket. And I am one of those below-industry-standard-paid-pilots. Some of you guys get paid quite good, but less than what your big brother is making on the other side of the country. Somehow I am tremendously happy with the job i have, the equipment I fly but for the position I have and the amount of time I put in I really get underpaid. Now I am not complaining too much, as this is just a steppingstone to, hopefully, better places. Just when I read that people think it is rediculous to complain about 20% less than average, when you signed for the job, it is also something that We HAVE to be glad to be having a job sometimes, just that really some people do NOT get paid well.

I am captain Lear flying 70+ hours a month on a regional-FO-starters salary. But It sure is fun most of the time!!

Anyway, I used to tip pretty good, but I think that I am going to cut it down a bit, as previously said, people walk a bit faster when you tip. What ever happened to having heart for your job and loyalty to your company?? What warrants you walking a little slower then in the first place?? I think with paying $3.50 a gallon for fuel a certain kind of service is already calculated into the fuel price, and when I pay $2500.- for my fuelticket (this is only a small jet) I find it rediculous that I had to get a cab to drop me and my crew of at the hotel.

Just my humble opinion

M

 

[El Duderino]

Hey Hawker Rider,
You have to be kidding about the pay you are receiving as a Learjet Captain. I might be way off here but last time I heard, Regional FO's start at around $18000. If this is true please tell me about the job. Just a question, but by chance are you here working in the US on a Visa or something.
Happy Holidays
dude

 

[wxman13]

its a fast food joint buddy....but whats with the tip jar?
…IF there is a skill , you guys should be getting paid more...

If Starbucks is a fast food joint, then why do a lot of people come in there for several hours at a time and work or talk? I would beg to differ, and say that the distinction is that, like it or not, Starbucks is offering a premium product (even if you get a bad barista who makes a horrible drink--that's the exception most places...) with, in most cases, an environment with atmosphere. And yes, we get paid well for our skills.

You don't bring it to my table, nor do you clean up after me.

Then you're right, no tip is warranted in that case. I've known many employees (partners, as we like to call ourselves), myself included, who do bring drinks to tables, especially if we mess it up or if we have the time, and who do pick up your plates and mugs. Yes, we do get paid significantly more than bartenders, etc, as you point out. Then again, we aren't expected to do either of those things, and a waiter is... (I won't even begin to entertain the bucket of worms there...)

Also, I would contend that there is a middle ground between "absolute minimum" and "above and beyond," as you state it: it's called the expectation. The minimum is definitely short of that: it is doing just enough to get by without your boss firing you or the customer yelling at you.

What happened to work ethic and pride???

I don't know about anyone else, but I still have plenty of it, whether or not I get a tip. It's not my fault if society has adjusted its expections for what the norm is regarding levels of service (because, ultimately, that is what's going on here).

I would venture to say that you are far more likely to see a barista at Starbucks really go the extra mile (more than keeping the cream and sugar stocked or whatever--that's part of our job...) than you are to see someone at McDonalds or Baskin-Robbins do the same. The tip jar is there for those times--I don't expect every customer who comes in to tip me just for making their drink like they asked for it--indeed they shouldn't, because that's our job. Hopefully I've made myself clear. This ends my tangent.

Peter

 

[A Squared]

I get tired of being surrounded by people with their hands out, much as I grow weary of the panhandlers at the traffic lights. Yes, I understand that waitstaff and bartender wages presuppose tips. Unless a waiter has been rude or incompetent (I don't recall the last time this has happened) I tip 15-20% of the bill, or at least a dollar if it's something cheap and simple like a cup of coffee and a bagel. Outside of a restaraunt or bar, just do the job you're paid to do, and please don't demand to carry my bags. I don't know about you, but I don't need help with my bags, I'm in good health and I pack what I can carry. I can find my hotel room without assistance, they have numbers on the doors for just that purpose. I can figure out how to turn on the lights, (light switches are a wonderful thing, they are pretty much the same in all the parts of the world I've travelled) and can probably manage to get the curtains open myself. When you get right down to it, the only real difference between a bellhop and the bum wanting to wash your windshield is hygeine. They're both trying to extort money from you for a "service" you don't need.

Those obnoxious "tips" jars that seem to spring up at every counter you buy something edible from, they're really no diferent than begging. What is the functional difference between those and the signs saying "hungry, out of work, please help"? There's not much of a difference when you get right down to it. Look, I don't tip the clerk at the shoe store who gets me a pair of shoes, I don't tip the guy at the hardware store who weighs out 5 pounds of 16 penny nails; why then does the person who sticks a hotdog in a bun and grabs a drink from the cooler for me expect something extra?

Regarding pilots expecting handouts; are we professionals or are we not? I don't tip my doctor, I don't tip my dentist, I don't tip my mortgage officer, I didn't tip the policeman who investigated my house burglary. We all insist quite vociferously that we are professionals, and demand to be accorded professional respect and treatment, but then we get annoyed when we are treated like professionals, doing our jobs. Are we professionals, or just panhandlers?

regards

 

[Timebuilder]

I understand.

I personally can't wait to make something even close to a living wage at flying. It hasn't happened yet. Then, and only then, I'll be able to react to a tip by saying "thanks, but that's not necessary. Have a great day".

Then I'll walk off the ramp feeling like I am regarded as a professional....... by those who pay my salary.

 

[cjh]

A Squared,

I'm with you. Well said.

Hotels are my pet peeve. It irks me to haul my bags into my car at home, haul them into the plane, and then typically out of the plane as well, but then, I get to the hotel and suddenly I'm incapacitated? I can't make it the final few yards to the room without the helpful assistance of the bellhop? There have been a few times when I thought it was going to get physical to retain possession of my own luggage! I also don't need turn down service, or any of the other inventive extras targeted to separate yet more bucks from my pocket.

Or, how about you get to the "well appointed" room to discover the iron is missing, or the coffee has not been resupplied, or there's coffee but no cups? Worst of all, no coffee at all! (Seems to be the new thing in the more expensive hotels.) You call, and someone delivers the missing item(s). I know they expect a reward for the "extra" service that in reality is only a problem to begin with because of the sloppy job performed by those cleaning the room.

 

[bdempsey72]

I am rather shocked to read this thread. While I am a private pilot myself I have taken several trips on private aircraft and have never considered tipping the pilot or flight crew. As several posters have mentioned they are doing their jobs as professionals. I do not get tips for doing my job and have never felt ashamed to tell the pilot she did a great job and go on to the hotel.

While I do not know the compensation plan intimately, I know that our pilot is paid on a scale based on hours flown over the course of a year and makes much less money if she is not flying. Therefore, even when she is flying me on a personal trip instead of business I have never thought to provide tips.

Pilots have the misfortune to be in an industry that many other people want to be in. Simple economics will rule what people are paid and as long as the job will get done for peanuts people will pay peanuts. What throws this industry off so badly are the huge salaries paid to some senior captains of the big iron. People will pay huge dollars for ratings then work for almost no money in order to compete for the chance at one of those jobs in the future. When those top salaries come down, demand for pilot jobs will decrease and starting salries will come up.

 

[Timebuilder]

People will pay huge dollars for ratings then work for almost no money in order to compete for the chance at one of those jobs in the future. When those top salaries come down, demand for pilot jobs will decrease and starting salries will come up.

In a pure economic environment, I would agree with you. There are a great many folks who are willing to lie (sorry, I can't think of a stronger word than that) to prospective flight students so that there will almost certainly never be a "shortage" of pilots who think that they will buck the trend that is in place, and will move on to that 200-300K job in the Big Jet.

If you operate a business, you would pay a bonus at Christmas, a performance bonus for outstanding service, etc, just like I would. My example specifically relates to a man who operates an aircraft as a cost of doing business. Throughout the business world, perks and extras such as bonuses and tips are a part of the business cost structure.

I guess you can say that since I was never a cheapskate when I was wealthy, I have a special resentment reserved for those who can share a little, but simply refuse to based on their "curmudgeon" status, or just sheer cussedness.