Tipping the Van driver....

[Ty Webb]

I fly someone 1000 miles and don't get $hit, yet I should automatically tip the van driver for 1 mile, why, he makes a salary!

I doubt he makes a salary. He probably makes an hourly wage, which is supplemented by the tips that he gets from airline crews. Ask him who tips and who doesn;t, and you'll probably learn something about the company you are in.

No one is wrong or right for tipping. Ty Webb, don't pass judgement on others it's really "LOW CLASS!"

If the van is on time, and the bags are handled properly, a tip is customary, unless you are a person with no class, IMHO.

PS., this subject is covered during Indoc, at least it was when I went through. I wondered what kind of person would need to have it spelled out for them . . . now I know.

So, where did you grow up? Did you travel much with your parents (I mean by air, or ship, not by bus)? Did they tip? Just curious.

 

[liv'n_on_credit]

Tipping has gotten out of control.

AMEN! It's gotten WAY out of control.

I tip waiters/waitresses if they do a good job because there are many things they can do to make it a good meal that some don't do(fill drinks more often, take finished plates, do a special order, etc.), but what special things does a van driver do? I don't need him to carry my bags, I can handle moving them an extra 2 feet from the curb to the van. As far as being on time, that's his JOB, not something done extra/above and beyond his job duties.

Also, those of you who are so insistent on tipping the van driver, why don't you tip the front desk clerk for having our keys out and ready? How about the maid for a clean room? How about the hotel manager for running a nice hotel? How about the hotel janitor for keeping a clean lobby in the hotel? If you feel that you need to tip people who do things for you, why just the van driver?

Bottom line...you Pro-tippers go ahead and tip if you want, that's your choice, but don't get mad or think bad of me when I don't tip.

 

[Ty Webb]

Bottom line...you Pro-tippers go ahead and tip if you want, that's your choice, but don't get mad or think bad of me when I don't tip.

Tipping the van driver is customary. If you don't want to, then don't, but it looks cheap and tacky.

 

[saabservant]

It is disappointing to hear that some do not tip properly. As has been said, it is only customary, but it reflects a lot about who you are, and how you are perceived, and how you perceive yourself.
A tip says "thank you" for your personal involvement with me, for helping me along my way as a PROFESSIONAL business traveler. Your own w-2, however low it may be, is irrelevant, as is your family's college fund. That worker is probably raising a family too, on less money than you make, even a second year FO or FA. Spending and budgets always expand to fill the size of your check, no matter your income....how small a man can be, to suffer, find success, and not have the grace to share or show appreciation...

I'll tip 2.00 each way, unless there is no help with bags(always fun getting the road salt on your uniform), or the driver is surly or extremely late. A buck or two for the housekeeper, if the place is clean and supplied. It adds up, sure, but how many of us buy 4.00 coffees, and then don't have the ability to give, too? Still hiding that per diem check from the spouse, too?
It's not exorbitance, it's generosity; good human spirit.

No Scrooge here....

 

[FishandFly]

It is disappointing to hear that some do not tip properly. As has been said, it is only customary, but it reflects a lot about who you are, and how you are perceived, and how you perceive yourself.
A tip says "thank you" for your personal involvement with me, for helping me along my way as a PROFESSIONAL business traveler. Your own w-2, however low it may be, is irrelevant, as is your family's college fund. That worker is probably raising a family too, on less money than you make, even a second year FO or FA. Spending and budgets always expand to fill the size of your check, no matter your income....how small a man can be, to suffer, find success, and not have the grace to share or show appreciation...

I'll tip 2.00 each way, unless there is no help with bags(always fun getting the road salt on your uniform), or the driver is surly or extremely late. A buck or two for the housekeeper, if the place is clean and supplied. It adds up, sure, but how many of us buy 4.00 coffees, and then don't have the ability to give, too? Still hiding that per diem check from the spouse, too?
It's not exorbitance, it's generosity; good human spirit.

No Scrooge here....

By my math you hand out around $1536 per year.

I drove a van a van a long time ago and got quite a kick out of finding out that I was making more than the first officers that were tipping me. All I was doing was driving back and forth 5 miles, turning the steering wheel twice, and lifting 100lbs worth of luggage at each end. Fact is, I didn't deserve it.

The only time that I expected a tip was when I had to wait a long time, or if they had 15 bags of luggage. I felt that was beyond the call of my job description. NOT taking flight crews back and forth.

This experience led me to believe that tipping that has become "customary" is ridiculous.

If you want to tip someone, I think you should tip the person who is working just as hard in a job that does NOT get a lot of recognition. Not the person driving the van who does nothing above and beyond his job all day long and still ends up with an extra $50 bucks in his pocket.

 

[semperfido]

... 3-5

 

[sluminginpit]

For a $2 beer at the bar your tip a buck (50%)

Waiters use to get 10%, now 20%

I went to dinner last week, they added 20% to my bill automatically for a tip!

This is not a tip, this is a service charge, and promotes poor service. Why do we constantly tip for bad or no service at all. It is customary to tip Skycaps $3-$5 per bag, who made that up!

Kudos to thoose who tip all van drivers, that's you choice. However I work hard for my hourly wage and feel it is my right weather to tip or not.

Ty Webb, you seem offended that others don't follow your lead in tipping? You seem so classy yet have no class at all. You critizize my upraising because I disagree, classy.

I traveled alot with my family, and stayed in high end hotels that treated the customer with respect. My parents tipped well and often. However I am currently 34 years old and as you know the world has changed and the service industry sucks.

Next time you wait for the van 30 mins, lift you own bags in and out, then give the driver a tip, I just want to say thanks. Thanks for breeding a society that expects to be rewarded for marginal service which through time will continue to get worse and decline. But hey don't forget, "TIPPING IS CUSTOMARY".

 

[Ty Webb]

By my math you hand out around $1536 per year.

Your math needs a lot of work. 15 overnights a month, 12 months per year = 180 nights. Even at $2. ea way and a buck for the maid, it's still only about $750./yr, which is tax deductible. Hell, I spend more than that on cigars.

Per diem is to cover expenses while on a trip, such as meals, phone calls, tips, etc. If you choose to not do the customary tipping, that's your choice, but don;t try to justify it. It's just being cheap . . . maybe you view that as a compliment, but I sure don't. To me, the simple act of tipping goes beyond a simple exchange of a buck, it says something about you . . . that money is more important than character. I'm sure you don;t see it that way; how could you?

As for the rest of your story:

I drove a van a van a long time ago and got quite a kick out of finding out that I was making more than the first officers that were tipping me. All I was doing was driving back and forth 5 miles, turning the steering wheel twice, and lifting 100lbs worth of luggage at each end. Fact is, I didn't deserve it.

I'll bet you didn't. . . . .

This is one of those subjects, I guess. Over and Out.

 

[Ty Webb]

I went to dinner last week, they added 20% to my bill automatically for a tip!

Maybe they recognized you.

This is not a tip, this is a service charge, and promotes poor service.

I agree.

Ty Webb, you seem offended that others don't follow your lead in tipping? You seem so classy yet have no class at all. You critizize my upraising because I disagree, classy.

Just curious how you justify this.

If you re-read the string, you'll see that no one advocates tipping when the van is late, or the service is lacking.

 

[rightrudder]

Tipping maids is customary. I usually leave a dollar. They work very hard and are often paid min wage. I would feel bad not leaving the maid a tip. I also tip the van driver, unless late or rude.

In a past life, I had to travel for business, and these tips are a customary courtesy.

 

[FishandFly]

Your math needs a lot of work. 15 overnights a month, 12 months per year = 180 nights. Even at $2. ea way and a buck for the maid, it's still only about $750./yr, which is tax deductible. Hell, I spend more than that on cigars.

Per diem is to cover expenses while on a trip, such as meals, phone calls, tips, etc. If you choose to not do the customary tipping, that's your choice, but don;t try to justify it. It's just being cheap . . . maybe you view that as a compliment, but I sure don't. To me, the simple act of tipping goes beyond a simple exchange of a buck, it says something about you . . . that money is more important than character. I'm sure you don;t see it that way; how could you?

As for the rest of your story:



I'll bet you didn't. . . . .

This is one of those subjects, I guess. Over and Out.

My math was wrong, the maid certainly didn't deserve the $4 for cleaning up the toilet as I calculated it.



There is a difference between being cheap and putting money towards other needs.

Your view is short sighted.

I flew with a captain that gave 10% of his income to differing causes he felt needed it. None of this $7,000 per year went to the van driver. Is he cheap?

 

[TinGoose1]

This whole thread is funny. When was the last time someone slipped you a couple of bucks for not killing them in a thunderstorm.....or a smooth landing. I tip when it's deserved not just for the heck of it. Tipping is an acknowledgement of a job well done....not for just doing the minimum. If your someone who judges another pilot on how he/she tips, I'll bet your a real joy to fly with. If you think everything is that simple you belong back in your skyhawk.

 

[Tram]

Yeh, really.. Maybe pilots need to hold up a "tip jar" while the pax get off the bird.

 

[jobear]

Yeh, really.. Maybe pilots need to hold up a "tip jar" while the pax get off the bird.

with the attached note:

"Ladies and Gentlemen if you value a smoothe flight and a nice landing please tip; however it is not necessary or customary. If you want a back breaker let me hear change hitting the bottom of the Smooth Landing Fund Jar"

Jobear
sarcasms little biaotch

 

[Tram]

Ahahaha..

 

[shroomwell]

I flew with a captain that gave 10% of his income to differing causes he felt needed it. None of this $7,000 per year went to the van driver. Is he cheap?

Yeah they're called Mormons.

 

[propjockey]

You guys with your pilot-hat-wearing, Catch-Me-If-You-Can delusions of grandeur that tip to show off (Mr. "I spend more than that in cigars") make me ill. I do not tip van drivers when I am on company business. These are not pleasure trips I'm taking. Unlike the average business traveler (of which I was once one), I am not expensing and being reimbursed for tips.

If the airline wants the hotel van driver to make more money, the airline can pay him directly (or through the contract). It is not my job to supplement his income. When I initiate the travel, (e.g. going out to eat) THEN I tip the driver.

I save as much of my per diem as possible to supplement my own meager FO income in support of my family. Don't even talk to me about tax deductibility. It does me no good, since I don't even make enough to pay any taxes!!

I don't care if tipping the driver to and from the hotel is customary. It's a custom that ought to end. You guys that perpetuate it do a disservice to the rest of us. What is it that separates us from the van driver in terms of deserving tips beside your precious "airline pilot image?" (because it certainly isn't the pay!)

 

[Ty Webb]

Don't even talk to me about tax deductibility. It does me no good, since I don't even make enough to pay any taxes!!

You either need a new accountant, or you need to stop working for free, because you most certainly have some tax liability, big guy.

What is it that separates us from the van driver in terms of deserving tips beside your precious "airline pilot image?" (because it certainly isn't the pay!)

Even AirTran flight attendents can afford to tip. . . . . If you can't cough up a buck for the van driver, you need to find a new job.

 

[turbodriver]

HOw 'bout this Capt. Tip,

you can tip for all of us from now on, since it's part of your moral upbringing and respectability to tip some guy that makes more than I do at the end of the day. How's that?

 

[MVSW]

How many of you out there are cheap ole' bags,? How many of you tip MORE than a dollar? How many of you will use the ten in your wallet to buy lunch, just so you have that dollar to tip?

Let's weigh in folks, thoughts on tipping the van driver....


I just flew 'em half way 'round the country...didn't get squat!

Zero...Thats their job. I dont ever remember getting a tip flying people around the US. Its my job!

 

[MVSW]

Forget the van driver, how much are people tipping at strip clubs?

Yeah b/c they show us things that we like to see!!

 

[propjockey]

[/b]

You either need a new accountant, or you need to stop working for free, because you most certainly have some tax liability, big guy.

Clarification:

I don't make enough on 2nd-year RJ FO pay with a family to have any state or federal tax liability. If you cannot comprehend this, you're as bad as all your passengers who also think I'm making $100,000+ just because I'm flying a jet.

The pay won't be this bad forever, but when I'm making captain pay, I still will not tip the van driver to do airline company business until and unless the day comes that the airline decides to reimburse me for tips. The hotel van is not a registered charity.

A sincere "thank you" is sufficient. I haven't seen anyone yet list any good reasons to tip the van driver for the drive to and from the hotel. If they, as a result of not tipping, do not flash me a winning smile or carry my bags to the curb for me, I'm perfectly fine with that. In fact, I would prefer that they simply step aside and let me take care of my own bags to remove all sense of expectation that I owe them anything more than they are already paid.

If I were going to spend my money to tip anyone for doing airline company business, it would be for the occasional ramper who busts his tail to get us out on time, or the occasional flight attendant who does her job exceptionally well. Hmmm. That's not allowed. We're not even supposed to give the rampers a snack or drink from the plane. I wonder why we should tip the van driver?

Your sense of nobles oblige has obviously led to condescension toward those who have a different philosophy than your own. You can tip all you want, but I will not be shamed into it because of your misguided notion that it is my duty. You choose your charities -- I'll choose mine. There are a lot of registered charities that could do far more good on a $1000/year than the van driver.

 

[Ty Webb]

You guys that are complaining that a van driver makes more than you have only yourselves to blame . . . . why did you agree to take the job? We all had to start somewhere, but there are limits.

Let me guess . . . . can't scrounge up a buck because you're paying off your PFT loans?

 

[Yank McCobb]

Clarification:

I don't make enough on 2nd-year RJ FO pay with a family to have any state or federal tax liability. If you cannot comprehend this, you're as bad as all your passengers who also think I'm making $100,000+ just because I'm flying a jet.

The pay won't be this bad forever, but when I'm making captain pay, I still will not tip the van driver to do airline company business until and unless the day comes that the airline decides to reimburse me for tips. The hotel van is not a registered charity.

A sincere "thank you" is sufficient. I haven't seen anyone yet list any good reasons to tip the van driver for the drive to and from the hotel. If they, as a result of not tipping, do not flash me a winning smile or carry my bags to the curb for me, I'm perfectly fine with that. In fact, I would prefer that they simply step aside and let me take care of my own bags to remove all sense of expectation that I owe them anything more than they are already paid.

If I were going to spend my money to tip anyone for doing airline company business, it would be for the occasional ramper who busts his tail to get us out on time, or the occasional flight attendant who does her job exceptionally well. Hmmm. That's not allowed. We're not even supposed to give the rampers a snack or drink from the plane. I wonder why we should tip the van driver?

Your sense of nobles oblige has obviously led to condescension toward those who have a different philosophy than your own. You can tip all you want, but I will not be shamed into it because of your misguided notion that it is my duty. You choose your charities -- I'll choose mine. There are a lot of registered charities that could do far more good on a $1000/year than the van driver.

The mindless ramblings of a pathetic lifetime loser. Just leave him to his misery.

And yes...the obvious reason I tip the van driver is to "show off". GMAFB. Talk about pathetic. To even have a mind (if you want to call it that) to come up with such crap is unimaginable. But I guess there will always be at least one. I'm just glad it's you. Someone I'll never have to cross paths with professionally.

Spare me the insight into your hardships. We've ALL been there in some form at some time. Including those "charity case" van drivers.

 

[propjockey]

No, you arrogant [insert profanity here]. You don't merit this peek into my private life, but for the benefit of others reading this thread, I will say this:

You see 1900 on my profile and probably think Gulfstream. Not so. I do not have any PFT loans. I did not PFT. I do have a wife, four children, a car payment, utility bills, and $50,000+ still due in student loans from attending graduate school. I left a good paying desk job prior to Sept 11 because I yearned to do what my dad did (fly 747s across the pond). I was on track to do it soon when Osama and his buddies dealt us all a blow. My desk job wasn't there to go back to. During the ensuing 11-month furlough I looked diligently for other employment outside of aviation while working two part-time jobs at once. When my recall finally came, I was glad to go back to a job that at least provided health insurance. What was the point in turning back? So now I continue to press forward. Upgrade and a decent income are close at hand.

Unless you've felt the sting of genuine hardship, I advise you to keep your attacks to yourself.

 

[-9Capt]

I don't care if tipping the driver to and from the hotel is customary. It's a custom that ought to end. You guys that perpetuate it do a disservice to the rest of us.

...and you're an embarrassment to the vast majority of us.



Tipping is like wiping your ass after taking a dump, it's just something you do. If you can't afford it, you're living above your means. I was broke before (making $17/hr as a newhire at Trans States '95) but I always managed to find a dollar for the van driver.

I couldn't look the driver in the eyes and walk away without giving him something. It's standard practice here in the USA. Justify it however you want so you feel good about yourself, it's still wrong.

 

[propjockey]

I can't believe the indignation. Why such caustic attacks? If we were to meet for the first time and you didn't know I was the "non-van-driver-tipper-embarrasment-to-the-profession," you'd probably think I was a pretty good guy, and I'd probably feel the same about you.

I'm sorry about what I said about guys tipping being a disservice to the rest of us. That was over the top, it was late, and I was tired. I retract that.

I just don't think that choosing to live my life a certain way warrants the kind of personal attacks a few of you have leveled upon me.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Propjockey,

Sorry to read your insisntance on me me me. It is about we. Here is another thread on the same subject...

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?p=689726#post689726

And of course my response 13 months ago....


Looks like some of you need to be schooled on tipping the van driver.

At times the van driver is the chef or janitor that "volunteers" to take the crew.

Not sure if van drivers are required to load your bags. Maybe they need George Washington to convince them not to look at you and say "Do it yo 'self!" In addition, I want my bags handled nicely, not like legacy carrier rampers would.

But if you really need a reason to tip the van driver its cause when you want to go somewhere decent to eat and there is nothing around but hoe's and hookers, the van driver will take you there. Maybe you need to go to a drugstore or Lenscrafters... A van drivers tip is sure cheaper than a taxi cab. If enough guys don't tip and I want to get something to eat my answer is no before I ask. You tip cause you're looking out for your fellow pilots.....

If you don't tip cause you don't get tips, its time to realize that you are a professional! Professionals don't get tips! Do you tip your lawyer or doctor? As a professional you know that your tips are tax deductible so if your smart you'll let the IRS tip the van driver.

If you are a Capt and you don't tip, shame on you, you cheap bastard. I hope you're more uncomfortable than your FO and FAs are when they hand over a buck and you don't.

Don't make enough money to tip? That's right...flight crews can tip up to $500 per year. When you are making $18,000 thats 3% of your pay. That's diapers, rent or a nice meal with your wife if you happen to be at home. Take the lady out, for the love of god.

FAs shouldn't tip. They make less than FOs. Perhaps Capts should for them in Express/regional domestic flying.....

If you won't/can't tip at least look the van driver in the eye and say thank you. You want respect...give it.

 

[propjockey]

If you have nothing but "hookers and hoes" around the hotel, it's probably time to talk to the hotel person at your airline. This will have a more positive effect on your quality of life than tipping the van driver.

Rez, I agree with you in part about doing it "for us," and your point is well taken. I do not accept your point regarding professionals not receiving tips, however. That's more noblesse oblige (yes, I spelled it wrong last night)thinking, and I just don't buy it. I have known personally a number of professionals (doctors, dentists, etc.) who have received frequent gifts ("tips" if you will) ranging from modest to lavish. I do not act the way I do because I am selfish. In fact, I am very kind and quite generous. Examples abound, though I will spare you the list. As I mentioned before, I always tip the van driver when I initiate the travel. I'm going to have to agree to disagree on the point of tipping for airline-initiated travel. I choose not to do it whether I can afford it or not, but I always say "thank you."

The following is not directed toward Rez. People make some pretty brash generalizations when hiding behind the anonimity of flightinfo. It's a bit like being on the Jerry Springer show. I doubt the tone of this discussion would be so uncivil or inflamatory if we were speaking face-to-face. No, I am not living beyond my means. You can pretty closely estimate my means, but you don't know how I'm living. Look at this as a single character flaw, if you will, but please don't assume that one isolated, distinct philosophy on tipping van drivers is the sum total of my essence as a human being, or that this somehow makes me a "pathetic" and "mindless" "lifetime loser."

 

[English]

This whole thread is funny. When was the last time someone slipped you a couple of bucks for not killing them in a thunderstorm

I got a $600 tip once while taking my passengers to Amarillo. I didn't even make it in due to the weather (freezing fog). I had to take them to Borger, Texas, of all places, and I still got a tip! So, I think I was tipped for not killing them that day.